Fezcast - The Saracens Supporters Podcast
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Fezcast - The Saracens Supporters Podcast
S4 E6: Every Second Counts...
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Don't be late now...join Jez and Barry as they discuss the hot topics of last weekends rugby including a big win over Hartpury, world cup exits and near scrapes and we look forward to Chiefs, quarters and the small matter of a marathon for Jez. And oh, nearly forgot, how to kick before you've counted to 60!
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[Disclaimer: The Fezcast is brought to you on behalf of the Saracens Supporters Association and is not an official product of Saracens Ltd]
Title Music (from Season 4): "Herald" by This Winter Machine
You're listening to the Fezcast, produced on behalf of the Saracen Supporters Association and featuring the independent thoughts, rants, and rambles of Saracen's fans and special guests. If you'd like your opinion to be heard on the show, you can find the Fezcast on Facebook or Fezcast underscore SSA on Instagram and whatever Twitter is known as these days. But for now, enjoy this week's show.
SPEAKER_02Listening to the Fezcast! Listening to the Fezcast.
SPEAKER_04I haven't run out, I haven't worked not worked out what the number is yet. I mean, it'll come in about eight weeks' time, I think, Barry. But yeah, um, one half of Waldorf and the other half Stadler. We're with you today today to uh discuss the last weekend's rugby Hartbury at the Stone X. Some World Cup stuff, um, which we will try not to be late getting to. I think you'll know what one of the talking points in there will be, and then we'll have a look forward to Exeter. But how are you doing, Barry? You all good?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, all good. Thanks. Um, looking forward to the start of the the season proper, as it were, and um still just about enjoying the World Cup.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, absolutely. Well, we'll do that sort of like in order. So we'll do Heartbury, which I wasn't at and I haven't seen too much about. So I'm relying on you to be able to give us um the lowdown on what happened there. Uh, then we'll talk World Cup and then we'll have a look forward to Chiefs and see what might happen there. So uh um yeah, let's start off with the Heartbury game, Burry, because I followed it on Twitter. I was watching the World Cup stuff that was going on and a fantastic weekend. Well, four days of rugby to be perfectly honest with you, but yeah, half time 12-3 to Saracens. It it wasn't going by Twitter, it wasn't looking so good, was it at half time?
SPEAKER_03It was um very laboured, and we we just every time we got into a decent position, we we just blew it one way or another. Um, there was a couple of passes that that could and should have been made, and people got a little bit of a white line fever, I think, and and the chance was gone. Um Rottti was it was was Rottti every time we gave him the ball, he scored. So why we didn't give him the ball more, I don't know. Um to be fair, he didn't see much of it in the second half because everything seemed to come down the other side or or through the middle. But um, yeah, at half time it was it was laboured, but we did sort ourselves out second half, and uh it turned in a much better performance in the second 40 than we had in the first one.
SPEAKER_04Well, I suppose I mean the issue there is I mean, one, it was a dead rubber, wasn't it? I mean, there wasn't a great deal on the game, so you'd hope that perhaps the first half was a case of trying to do some things in a in a in a game situation that will be used when things get a little bit more serious, maybe. And you know, if they're trying things, they don't come off. Well, I suppose the best you can do is improve the second half, and and those things do come off, which it does seem to have happened. Uh, you know, somebody put was it 60 points on in the second half almost?
SPEAKER_03Uh 56 wasn't it because it was 68, 10 in the end. Um, yeah. I mean, credit, credit to Hartbury. Oh, we we've we said this before, and it's always it's almost uh damning with faint praise, but they they never gave up. They they kept trying, they kept trying to run from deep as well. Um, they would obviously determined not to not to kick the ball back to us as as as much as as they possibly could. So uh they deserve credit for sticking at it, but it was a bit a little bit um a little bit one-sided in the second half.
SPEAKER_04I hate that phrase, Barry. The the I I remember playing games where you came off and you had an absolute thump in, and then one of the opposition would say to you, well, stuck at it. And all you wanted to do was stick one on them because they're for being patronizing, and you realize you just you look an absolute dick for doing it, and it's like you have to swallow that one up. I absolutely it's it's one of those phrases in rugby I hate more than anything else.
SPEAKER_03Well, it is better than the uh well, they clearly gave up at halftime, didn't they? And didn't bother coming out for the second half. So, yeah, I mean that they did they did keep trying to play, they didn't see an awful lot of the ball in the second half. Um, the one chance they got in the second half, which was uh as a result of uh Sarason's mistake, they pounced on and finished quite nicely. I can't really remember them having too much more of the ball in the second half, to be honest.
SPEAKER_04No, well, I mean, that's the thing. The the important question, I suppose, is from the previous week when previous weeks we discussed line out had gone awry. Did the line out look better on the weekend, Barry?
SPEAKER_03It did. I didn't see the first two games, so I haven't really got an awful lot to compare it with. Um, but it it it certainly I I think uh the the the main facets of the game worked well. Um obviously uh Alex uh Lazowski won the man of the match, the official one, but there was half a dozen candidates really, and including, I've got to say, um Samson Ajimi, who is an absolute beast, and he has got to be the quickest uh booker I've ever seen in my life because when he gets going, my word is he fast. He really is, he really is rapid and he's an aggressive, aggressive runner with the ball as well. And uh if he if he carries on at the rate that he's going, he's gonna be the next the next big thing that we're talking about, I think.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's interesting because obviously we've got Fiodan away with England along with Jamie George, you know. And I mean, loath to write Jamie George off, obviously. Um, but you know, he's coming towards the end of his career. It would seem, you know, Fio Dan is an explosive, quick um you know, a flanker play and a hooker almost. And it seems Samson is very much of that mold. So obviously, there's a recruitment around the starter player that you want to play that you want explosive, quick hookers who can, you know, potentially play in the back row if need be. Looking at an awful lot of players being multifaceted, you're not, you know, get your basics right. Yeah, that's important. But, you know, do we do we see the likes of KP and and and Wolfie perhaps coming down the the ladder a little bit, maybe?
SPEAKER_03I I th I think Wolfie will still have a a big role to play this season. Um KP, I'm not too sure about. He's never really um I wouldn't say he's never really impressed me because when he's been on it, he's been on it. But uh unfortunately there's a couple of the fringe players who will give you one decent game and then several where you're not quite too sure. And less it seems to be a longer or longer period between the decent games and the and the the ones that are are less comfortable, shall we say. And I and I think KP could be could be going backwards in in the pecking order this season. Looking at Samson, I think he will definitely get some game time when people are away. And if if we pick up another injury or so there, I think he'll be uh he'll be rapidly firing up the up the ladder.
SPEAKER_04Well, I mean, yeah, it's great to see that young players taking their opportunities uh with both hands. I mean, we mentioned uh um Timi Segan uh who has impressed in all the games he's played. I mean, out of the other youngsters that were on the field barry on the weekend, who who really caught the eye for you?
SPEAKER_03Uh I think probably Josh Hallett and uh I'm gonna give a special mention to Toby Knight as well, who who bagged himself a couple of tries in the second half. Um, yeah, that they they he they both of them carried the ball with with menace. Josh Hallett does cut some very, very good lines as well at times. Um he he certainly knows he he his understanding of the game seems to be coming on um in spades, and and I think he will be again he will get some good game time this season. Um Toby maybe not so much game time this season, but he's certainly a again one for the future. Um there there was a lot of decent performances all all over the all over the pitch, really. Um and yeah, it it was good. I mean, you can only you can only beat what's in front of you, and obviously Hartbury have have struggled a bit in the in the Premiership Cup this year. Um it's a shame we are only finishing where we are in the table and not not really having had much to challenge for having um blown the first couple of uh well the first three games, isn't it, really? Um two out of the three rather. Uh so yeah, uh it's a shame, but I I think um we we move on to the serious stuff on Saturday.
SPEAKER_04Well, indeed, and I mean it does go back to the interview we did with Dan Vickers, where he was talking about more about performances and perhaps more about individual performances getting ready for the the season proper, as you put it, starting off. And we'll talk about that in a third part, but we'll have a small break now and then we'll come back and we'll run the rule over the uh the World Cup, if that's okay with you guys.
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SPEAKER_02This is the first cast.
SPEAKER_04Well, Barry, on um uh Sunday night I um I saw a tweet and I reposted it myself on Facebook and I reposted it on Twitter, and it was something along the lines of Portugal finally get their win at the rugby world cup, Fiji qualify for the quarter finals, Eddie Jones goes home, and it said, Alexa, play everyone's a winner by hot chocolate. And I have to say, that has been in a weekend of highlights in the World Cup, that has been without doubt the biggest highlight. The fact that at one point Eddie Jones has probably running around the Aussie lad said, Oh, best not have another beer, guys. We might yet be playing England for it to be dashed away from it like that. I it was it it made me laugh an awful lot, Mary.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I uh at one point on the ITV coverage, they they put the the table up as it stands, and they actually had Australia in second. And I thought, hang on a minute, that's not wrong. That's not right, rather. And they uh they never referred to it again, and then just five minutes later put the table up with Fiji in second because they were still only losing by uh not not by enough points to to get Australia through. Um, yeah, it was a a great game Sunday. It was two good games Sunday, actually, because the uh Argentina-Japan game was quite enjoyable as well. Well, indeed.
SPEAKER_04I mean, we'll have a quick talk about that one. I mean, Argentina eventually came out on top, um, you know, but Japan for a long period of time were keeping them honest, and you know, two teams fully prepared to attack, and you know, seeing second rows chipping down the wing and he running in a try like that. I mean, he got into my team of the week purely on the basis of that. I mean, second rows shouldn't be able to do that sort of stuff. We we all uh we all lost our marbles when Zinzanbrook dropped a dropped a gold in the 91 semi-final, sorry, the 95 semi-final against England from the halfway line. You certainly see second rows doing skills like that. I mean, the world's gone mad, hasn't it, Barry?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, as as we said in the first part, you know, multi-talented players are are the way forward. I mean, we've we've got some uh Saracens ourselves. I mean, you know, let's not mention the skillful beast in his kick through last season. I mean, what a what what what a great bit of play that was.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was, and I mean, as I said uh previously, it was a weekend of amazing skills around. I mean, you had the French just playing, you know, Jouet Jouet, it was wonderful, yeah. You know, and you've got to take into account who they're playing, but they were playing Italy, you know, and I mean Italy, you are. Uh let's be honest about it. I worry about Marco coming back because their confidence is going to be shorn completely from them. It's the extent that when Kieran Crowley takes off his skipper, who I think you know, McKay Lamar uh Lamaro probably went off, found the uh leaving collection for um for Kieran Crowley and took the 100 euro note out that he'll put in beforehand. But you know, the French were just doing stuff on that field that is just you know sublime. And it started off with Damian Mackenzie for New Zealand. I mean, that run down the sidelines, the kick, and then the the one-arm, the one-handed passing side to Will Jordan, you know, as he's going into row row D of the stands. I mean, it's it was just there were an awful lot of outstanding skills on show this weekend.
SPEAKER_03Certainly, the the uh if if world rugby ever let one out, the highlights reel for this weekend is gonna be uh about half an hour long, I think. Well, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I the one the one highlights I did see, I did see someone on Twitter had uh posted the um the film from Portuguese TV of Portugal winner, the Portuguese commentators. It was absolutely joyous hearing, you know, and and and that's fantastic. That you know, one it needed it needs a team like Fiji to get to the quarter finals. That's been great for the game, but it also needed one of these. I'm not gonna say tier two nations because they're not I I don't like this idea of that tier one nations are only tier one nations because they get an awful lot more money and an awful lot more exposure and an awful lot bigger games. It's the only difference. You give a team like Portugal who were extremely well coached by the Bayonne Express, and I mean as a player that I enjoyed watching back in the day, but you know, as a coach, he's done brilliantly making well coach the year. But you know, they came out, they played with a joy, with an it with with no fear. That's the thing, you know. I I said this to Dan Vickers in the when I interviewed Dan, you know, you want players that when they get the ball in their hand will do something, it might not work, but I don't care. Just do it and learn from it if it doesn't work. And that's what Portugal have done all tournament, isn't it, Barry?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Um, I've seen only seen a couple of their games as various um bits and pieces of being away with my other hobby. But um, yeah, it's it's been that they've been a joy to watch a lot of the the so-called lesser games or the the the games involving lesser nations, particularly when it's not uh not one of them being thumped by New Zealand or whatever, as have been they've been far more enjoyable games than than some of the bigger ones.
SPEAKER_04Well, indeed, and and before we move on to England, who actually have yeah, England have been disappointing, it has to be said. But before we move on to that, I mentioned this, the the other team to mention is Scotland, who have both really, really disappointed me. Now, Scotland in particular are gonna complain and say, well, you know, the draw was done X amount of time ago, it was ridiculous, you know, you now got the top three or the top five sides in a group. Well, I'm sorry, but you've got to beat the best in the world at some point during a World Cup to win a World Cup. And Scotland had two opportunities to play teams better than them and get a scout. You know, they should have been targeting those games and saying, look, we need to beat either South Africa or Ireland. Yeah, okay, it might be a crappy hand we've been drawn, but we've got to beat one of those teams. And I, you know, two games, they never landed a glove on either team. Against Scotland, they did eventually, but uh sorry, against Ireland they did eventually, but it's because you know, half the team had been subbed off, and and you know, they had a wit had a scrum half on the wing, and they had a a centre on the wing, and you know, I mean, it was you know, uh Johnny Sexton had gone off and whatever. I mean, they Ireland had Ireland had won the game at half time, and Scotland hadn't even fired a shot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I Ireland were just to be fair, Ireland was simply too good for them on the day. Um, there was a period when Scotland had multiple phases, like 10, 12, 15, whatever it was, uh around about 10 minutes into the game. And Ireland just kept them at arm's length. They had lots, lots of phases, they kept recycling it, they kept hold of it, and you could see what was going to happen. Eventually, Ireland were gonna pounce, they were gonna get a chance for a turnover, or there was gonna be a penalty. I think it ended in a penalty, but they literally they they went side to side, backwards, forwards, and they got no yardage gain whatsoever. They Ireland just kept them at arm's length, they knew exactly what they were doing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. Uh, and you know, Scott, if you look at it, I mean, I have been always not say critical of Finn Russell, because I think Vin Russell on his day is Mercurial, he can be amazing, he can do things that no other standoff in the world can do. But it's so rare that he does it, and when he gets into a big game, when the bigger boys are playing against him, he goes missing. Or what he did on the weekend was he decided that he was gonna spend more time chatting to the ref about what he wasn't giving them, as opposed to getting on and doing it. And all that happened there was that every time that Finn Russell got the ball, he immediately passed it on to somebody else to do to do something with it, until Arlen's weakened their side through substitutions, whatever, and then he suddenly decided, oh, I'll I'll show off a bit here. It's like a boxer who spends two and a half minutes of a three-minute round running around avoiding punches, only to throw a flurry in the last last 10 seconds to to to uh to to to impress the judges almost.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, or hoping that the scorecards only filled in at the end, I guess. But um, yeah, it was it was a shame that that Scotland couldn't put up uh a better account of themselves. But you're right. Finn Finn Russell is is a great player to watch on his on his day, and when when he's when he's on song, um the one word of advice to Scotland would be just imagine you're playing England every week because they certainly don't seem to have any trouble um getting it up when they're playing England, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04Well, absolutely, and I've always said this the point that um Scotland just see England as another game on the same level as playing Wales or Ireland or France or whatever, the better Scotland will be. Uh they just can't back up performances. However, um before we move on to England and Samoa and uh a heavy Saracens uh kind of um uh influence there, I do want to mention one player, and I did tweet at Saracens about this when I watched Romania Tonga and the fullback Simonescu for Romania. I see an awful lot of Alex Good in him, and you know, Goody's coming up to the end of his career at some point, it's gonna happen at some point, you know, it might be when he's 47, but uh you know, Nick Kennedy, have a look at that lad Simonescu. I saw an awful lot of Alex Good in him, um, in a very good way. Fine, fine player in a team that was quite well beaten throughout the tournament.
SPEAKER_03Um, if he saw a lot of Alex Good in him, we actually see Tom Parton, he even dresses the same. Out on the lash of the full the full kick stuff afterwards, even no, he's he's he's he's he's got the white undershirt on underneath his underneath his black suit. People were looking at the 15 on Saturday going, where's how's Alex Good playing two? Oh no that's not Alex Good, that's Tom Parton. When I grow up, I want to be Alex Good.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, let's move on to England tomorrow. And the first thing to say, um, a player that I have pumped an awful lot, and a lot of people are pumping him quite rightly, Magic Theo McFarlands. Now, the first thing I say, and I did tweet this during the game, I hope, I really hope, knowing it won't happen, that Theo gets refereed as leniently for Saracens as he did for Samoa because he should have had a yellow card first five minutes when we got that rolling mall going, and he cynically and clinically dragged it to the ground over the top of him. That was a yellow card straight off. And then I think you know, he was appearing underneath eyeballs primarily because he got about a 15 meter red star on everybody else, and he wasn't picked up once. And some of the uh the work at the breakdown was very nefarious. Yeah, referees, if he's got a cloak of If you know if he's got uh Josh Vanderfleer's uh trademarked cloak of invisibility, let's hope he continues to wear it when he plays a Saracens Murray.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. That that will uh that will definitely be handy. I didn't actually see the first half of that because I was still driving back from the Stone X, but um yeah, it it's uh it was where do we start with England? Where do we start? I I suppose that I suppose the best English performance of the weekend was Luke Peterson in in Sunday's match.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, absolutely, he did very well there, didn't he? But no, I mean let's leave um the backs and the and the big one to the end. I mean, although to say that a lot of people are throwing an awful lot of um criticism towards the backs, they didn't spark. The reason the backs didn't spark was that Alex Mitchell was not giving them good ball. And the reason Alex Mitchell was not giving them good ball was because the pack were beaten up. Um I think the only pack member who could come out with any credit at all was Ben Hell. And Ben's had a superb, superb tournament, and great news that he signed a new deal with Saracens as well. That's fantastic news. But everybody else in that pack, Oddi Chesham had a pretty good game. Mara told you you can't fault his effort, but you know, I felt Courtney Laws was not at the races, Dan Coles was not at the races, Jamie didn't have his best game. Ayers Genj had one of those games where I think he suddenly thought he needed to take the entire pack uh Senayan pack on on his own and it just didn't work. And Tom Curry showed that he was rusty after a period of time. Al, you know, he's played three minutes of rugby in this tournament so far. Billy came on, did a good job. George Martin came on, did a good job. We got parity in the second half in the pack, which then meant that we were able to release backs when Owen went to 10. And Smith came on a fullback, and Holly Lawrence came on, made a huge difference. But yeah, um that pack, you know, and against Fiji, Fiji's pack has been other than against Portugal, has been impressive. That's the big concern. We need to work that out, work that out quick, Barry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I don't know if it was a combination of obviously we we played Chile a couple of weeks ago, then we had a rest week, and then and you know, across both the Japan and the and the Chile games, there's been certain rotations. And I I just wonder if if the players had just got out of the groove a little bit, and that was maybe the game that they needed. I'm certainly hoping so for uh for this weekend. But yeah, it was it was hard to find uh it was hard to find anything to to be pleased about other than the result, which was uh a little bit harsh on uh on um uh uh Samoa. Uh Samoa, thank you. Sorry, I had an argument with someone on Twitter about Western Samoa, and I can I can't get the name out of my head. Um yeah, it was a it was it it was a harsh result on them, it felt.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I did I mean Samoa really uh this is the annoying thing again, though. I mean, that and this is the thing that happens when you're an England rugby, you know, England rugby at whatever level, whether you support, whether you're a player, whether a coach, whatever. Teams get up for England in a way that they don't get up for anybody else. And we understand that happens in football, it happens in cricket, happens in all sorts of sports. The old colonial oppressor, I've I've even had that uh thrown at me on uh on Twitter today whenever we talk about it, you know. But England's are seen as the one that everybody wants to knock down, you know, and it's the extent that people in our table say, come on, Fiji, it's the result that world rugby won. And yeah, you know, we are like the mill wall of world rugby almost, aren't we? You know, nobody likes us, but we should be able to use that to our benefit. And I think what impressed me most about England, and there were enough there to impress me, one Borthwick made a decision and dragged off George Ford. And you know, George Ford, other than Argentina, where he kicked three great drop goals, but it was against an Argentina that just didn't turn up. He's had a very average tournament. Now, I don't know if you remember the um the uh the film Mike Bassett, England manager, Ricky Tomlinson. He does that press conference, doesn't he? And they've been all talking about the Christmas pudding, whatever it was, and everything. And he does the whole um uh Ruddyard Kipling if and you know uh and all of that, and at the end of it, he just goes, and England will play 4-4 F in two. Well, I want Steve Walkwick to do the same on whenever he announces a team and to go through it and uh and uh say everything and say and Owen Farrell plays F in 10 because that's what England need. George Ford plays at 10, you don't pick Owen Farrell. Marcus Smith plays at 10, you don't pick Owen Farrell or George Ford. Owen Farrell plays at 10, you don't pick George Ford or Marcus Smith to start the game. And if it's me, you pick Owen Farrell at 10 because he's your captain and he's your best 10, and you put Marcus Smith on the on the on the um on the bench, and you give George Ford a tackle back. And you've got to do that, and now is the point. You've got three games potentially to win a World Cup, to save, or we've got one game in which to save England's reputation almost. You pick your best players, you turn around to your pack and say, give that boy good ball, and you have Oli Lawrence running off of his shoulder, you've got Elliott Daly at 13 outside him, and England will beat Fiji, but they've got to they've got to just discount everybody else apart from me, commentating on this and pick Owen Farrell at 10. Bang!
SPEAKER_03We've got to start picking the best players in their natural positions, not trying to shoehorn them in to a slightly different position because we think they're good enough but not quite good enough in their in their real position. It was a major failing of Eddie Jones and he got away with it for years simply with the with the results he was getting. Um but putting square pegs into round holes just doesn't work. Here's a question for you though, Jez. If we were to go on and beat Fiji and make the semi-final and then disappear out of that stage, does that constitute a successful World Cup for England?
SPEAKER_04Yes, 100% I think it does, for the simple reason that everybody expects it us to be going home at the group stages. It's exactly the same situation as Wales find themselves in. Wales, I actually think, have really played above themselves. And you know, you look at France, you look at Ireland, you expect them to do what they've done. And as much as Scotland have been disappointed in it, and this really does stick in my craw, Warren Gatlin's come back and work wonders with Wales. And and I think, and I think that Steve Bolfwick needs to take a leap out of Gatlin's, you know, he's a wily old Fox Gatland. He's seen it, he's done it, he's been there, and he is not afraid to make some really, really tough decisions. And make them he does. You know, you look at Alan Wynne Jones, you would have thought would have been at that World Cup, but he's turned around to him and said, No, sorry, AWJ, I've had loyalty, but I don't know. Rhys Carey was another one, wasn't he? He was told he was too overweight, he was too everybody criticized Warren Gutland at that point, but I think he's got it right because he's got players who are the fittest players in the World Cup. And Steve Borwick needs to take a leaf out of that book and be his own man and say, you know, this is my team, and this is what I'm playing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I I think yeah, it's you you're right about Gatland. I mean, he's he's been around the block enough to know what he's doing and to and to almost have the attitude of do you know what? If you want me to be the coach, I'll be the coach, but you let let me get on with it my way. And and you do wonder with with Steve if he's just trying to please too many people in the in the background. And I don't know, he's he doesn't seem to be uh uh quite picking the right side at the moment or or getting the tactics right. And it's hard to see the toughest thing for me is it's hard to see a progression from one game to the other. We could be brilliant for half a game and then rubbish for you know the the next game and a half and then sort of go backwards again in the next game and then have a look another little step forward, and it it just seems hard to see any great progression and and any great building process going on.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I I I entirely see. I mean, I think what what I said before this World Cup, and I think this is what Borfric has done right, is that he hasn't gone wholesale changes. Wales have done that, and although they've you know you've got your Tolupe Falatos, it's really sad to see him out now with a broken arm. But you know, you've got your your um experienced players in there, your George Norse, your Dan Biggers, your hundred cap men, your Liam Williams, whatever. But he's also he's just turned around and gone, right, okay, we're not expected to do nothing. Let's allow some of these kids who perhaps should have had a few more caps by now, let's let's give them their their opportunities. England have done it another way and have turned around and say, look, you know, there's every chance that we could get absolutely mulled in this World Cup, be embarrassed, go out in the group stages. I'm not going to expose young players who were going to be there in four years' time to that confidence blasting. Now, whether that's the right attitude to take, I don't know. But he has certainly protected an awful lot of players that I expect to see come in to the squad. He likes a Finn Smith at Northampton Saints, he likes a Charlie Atkinson. Harry Arundel, even though he's out there, hasn't been used over there against Chile. You know, that's good because he's given Harry Arundel experience. You could expect Harry Arundel to be the winger for the next 10 years, or should do, depending on what happens with his playing in France or whatever. But he hasn't, he hasn't turned around. I think he's been frightened that if you put too many youngsters in, they'd get obliterated, and that would be it'd be like the Matthew Tate kind of situation where you know he came through as this 18-year-old and then never realised his his potential. And I think that's what Borthwick has done well, you know. And Owen Farrell, we might as well get on to him. Owen Farrell has taken shit throughout his career. Excuse my French, everybody, but he has some of it deservedly so, a lot of it not deservedly so. Hell spells the blokes, the leading point scorer for England now, and that's legendary what he's done there. You watched when Johnny Wilkins had got 1200 points for England, everybody went, Well, that'll never get broken, and now Owen Fowles come along and broken it. Um, you know, but he's a sort of player, you know, he doesn't look at social medias, you know he doesn't, you know, he just gets on, he's single-minded, he's determined, he does what he does. And you perhaps that's what England needs in this World Cup.
SPEAKER_03I I Faz has been an interesting one, and obviously we'll we'll get on to the incident, as we'll call it, um, shortly. But uh yeah, it's great that he's he's got that record. Um, you're right. Well, I remember when when Johnny broke it, people were saying, well, that'll that'll stand forever, and it's it's not stood that long at all, really, in the great scheme of things. Um perhaps Faz's record won't. I mean, you know, it it's it's quite possible someone else will will come out and uh and and beat it if if they can match his length of service, as it were, because obviously he's been an international now for 12 years, is it something like that? I can't remember now. Um which is a a hell of a run in in the side and been captain for a good period of that time as well. So he he he definitely doesn't owe England anything. Um but we have to mention we have to mention the the time out.
SPEAKER_04Well we do, and I mean, I know at the time you you to you um WhatsApp went embarrassing, and to an extent it was, but actually, when you sit back and look at it in the cold, harsh reality of the day, it never it didn't cost England, it could have cost England, it didn't cost us at the end of the day, and yeah, okay, he's timed out. It's a mistake, it's a small mistake, it's no different than you know, Ben Kay in the World Cup final in 2003 with a line begging in front of him, dropping the ball when it when it was easier to score a trivia. That's just one example of the top of my head. It's not a given that when he stands there with that ball on the T, that he'll slot it anyway. You know, the fact was he did slot it and it's three points off. But you know, he's a player who obviously gets himself set up and he got himself set up slightly wrong, and he he hadn't gone through his processes, which you know, I mean, in my day it was a case of it would have taken you 60 seconds to build a sand tower to prop your ball on, anyway. But you know, and then you were kicking something like with like 20 pounds of wet haggis, but um, you know, he got that slightly wrong, it won't happen again, and if nothing else, he becomes a quiz question in 10 years' time, doesn't he? Who was the first player to be timed out on a kick of the World Cup?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Um, the the one thing I will say in his defense in in other games you've seen a clock or a scoreboard behind the posts, and that's got the clock counting down with the with the shot clock on it. Um, that wasn't in the stadium on Saturday, so I wonder if there's actually a clock that he can see. And it's probably a point that going forward, um, perhaps it's one for the authorities to think about, there should be behind the posts a countdown clock so that the kicker has got no excuses for not quite realising whether the clock's running or whether it's been stopped. And uh and I think it I suspect he genuinely didn't realise he was he was running out of time. Um he he probably didn't realise the clock was running quite as early as it was. And uh I th I think in in fairness to me, my embarrassing was more about the entire team's performance than than just that. But yes, it was uh it was one that made you go and hide behind the sofa when it happened.
SPEAKER_04Well, it it wasn't. I mean, you know, I and again, you know, he didn't mean to do that. Like, you know, no player means to knock the ball on, no player means to miss a miss time at tackle and go hi. No player means to collapse in a scrum. You all go out there to do your best job, and let's be honest about it, he's done that best job 1,200 points worth of times, so you know the the dog zone abuse he's getting is unwarranted, and it's a case of I I have no problem with his Scottish fans going and taking the Mick and having a bit of banner or Welsh fans or Kiwi fans. I haven't got any issues with that because let's be honest about it, we'll do the same to them. Like, you know, I'll turn around and tell him that Finn Russell is a bat-track bully who doesn't like it when the big boys turn up, as I already have done. But it's when England fans are giving in that abuse. You know, that's wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong. And really, you know, it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy, England's performances that there's a group of people led, it seems, by Matt Dawson, who should know better, given his history as an England rugby player, that you know they're at the World Cup now. Afterwards, if they haven't performed, do a debrief. Whatever. But when they pull on that shirt, they pull on that shirt and they play for all of us, and they play better for all of us when all of us are behind them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Um, I I read Dawson's column on the uh on the BBC website on Monday, and it was uh it was a strange thing. I mean, he he he was he was just short of of blaming Farrell for everything, but it not by much.
SPEAKER_04No, you just don't understand it. I mean, and you'll never can you know, as I said, Courtney Laws didn't have his best game for England. I guarantee you Matt Dawson never mentioned that because he's a Northampton Saints. I mean, he is he is so one-eyed and he's biased, he obviously thinks that Courtney Laws should be England captain, and you know, that's that clouds everything he he talks about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. I he he he's up there with uh with Lawrence when it comes to uh to a one-eyed view, um, particularly on Saracens for some strange reason. But there we go. You you can you can only you can only deal with with with what you can. Um I expect Faz will get picked on at the weekend, and I expect he'll uh he he'll play a better game, and I expect all of England players will play a better game this coming Saturday than they did last Saturday, or this coming Sunday, I should say, um, than last Saturday, or at least let's hope so.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, indeed, absolutely. Well, look, we've done the World Cup. Let's have a quick break and then we'll come back and just talk briefly about Exeter Chiefs and also what I've got coming up on this weekend. Okay.
SPEAKER_05You're listening to the Fed cast. Listening to the Fed Cast.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Alex Osterberry here, director of rugby for Saracens Women. You're listening to the Saracens Festcast.
SPEAKER_02This is the FedCast.
SPEAKER_04Well, welcome back to the last part. And yeah, we're just gonna do a brief preview and perhaps a prediction of what's gonna happen as we go away to start the season down at Sandy Park in Exeter, Tony Rose Ground. And you know, I I don't see us going in there with any great expectations, Barry, to be perfectly honest with you. And we've said that in the past, and we've been proven wrong in the past, and I hope that we're proven wrong again. But Exeter Chiefs have got uh haven't been affected as badly as a lot of clubs with international call-ups. You know, you've got the likes of Henry Slade who've been playing the Premiership Cup, which is shown by Chiefs qualifying for semi-finals and everything. They're gonna be have a very strong side out with a determination to put one over on the champions, who and we're going there, you know. The I don't know whether Fiona McFarland's back in the country, and I and I said it last week on the show. I if he is, I would be tempted to put ask him to put go straight back into the squad, but uh I very much doubt he will. But yeah, we're going down there with a almost full 15 unavailable because they're over in France where Exeter Chiefs players don't get selected.
SPEAKER_03Um we we we could make a very good side out of the players that aren't available for us this weekend. Um I was having a look at the Exeter lineup for their uh obviously that they got um they got their pants pulled down a little bit by Bath at the weekend in the in the uh in the Premiership Rugby Cup. Slightly surprisingly, because they did have quite a strong side out, although there was a few names there that I'm not overly familiar with, because obviously they've had a big churn of of players as well. But um you you've got to make them favourites at their at their ground, um playing their style of rugby and and with a with a more settled side that's that's had a good old good old run-up at this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, well, all we can hope from Saracens is that they go down there, they give a good account of themselves, they show what they've learned from the Premiership Cup games. That the you know, there's a lot of players there who perhaps, were it not for the World Cup, are going to get an opportunity, and we want to see them grasp that opportunity with both hands to make it difficult for Smalley when the superstars come back and are available. You know, I want players to stand up and say, I'm sorry, you know, even Owen Farrell's got to earn his place back in this side, Maratosi's got to earn his place back this side, Jamie George's got to earn his place back in this side. Uh, you know, that's what I want to see from the guys. And you know, if you get a result out of it, we get a result out of it. But yeah, I I definitely want to see some players now look at this as an opportunity and grasp that opportunity with both hands, Barry.
SPEAKER_03Well, they certainly should, um, because they they, you know, it's all about taking your chances in in life and it and in the game itself as well, of course. But uh let's let's go out there, let's uh as you say, give give Smallie something to think about and say, you know, players of of uh shouldn't be automatic selections when they come back. Um I think Faz might be all right though, because I suspect you'll play Goody at 10 again. Yeah, absolutely. Well, there you go.
SPEAKER_04But um, Barry, before we go, I I need to do a quick um plug for what I've got coming up this weekend because um again I won't be around to watch uh rugby live. I am going to be up in York. Um on Sunday, I shall be running the Yorkshire Marathon around York and the surrounding villages and the A64 and whatever. Um hopefully I've been training to try and get under five hours. Um that's my plan, that's my target. But you know, as close start as I possibly can get. But obviously, I'm running for the Motor Neurone Disease Association. So if anybody out there in Fezcast Land would like to sponsor me, uh please visit justgiving.com slash fundraising slash JZA, J E Double Z A Denson D-E-N-T-O-N. And any amount of money would be gratefully um received and appreciated in the work that is being done against um um um motor neuron disease. And indeed, you're gonna see Kenny Logan and his Merry Benz and uh um Ali McCoyson James Gespeet been before the Scotland game. I think they've been on the uh on the Bowsley after uh 700 miles quite fun. But yeah, uh a lot of work being done for motor neuron, obviously Doddy Weir and everything like that as well, and Ed Slater at Gloucester. Uh so yeah, please, if you can give some money, do go and visit my my website.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, hopefully you'll make more sense than those two did on television and on uh on the weekend. At one point I was looking for the subtitles button.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'll be honest with you. If you um interview me in the immediate aftermath of the marathon, no, you won't. And then two hours later, because I haven't had a drink for for uh two months now, and uh I sh I shall be clattering into the beers in the same way as Ali and Jim Jimmy did. So uh yeah, but but um we've got a big interview next week. I'm not gonna tell you who it is, but um I'm recording that this week uh for next week's show. But that'll be all you hear from me on next week's show is me with Floyd. Uh my water. There you go. I was gonna keep it a surprise. And uh, but yeah, I'm transit of Floyd Steadman um this week. So that's the big interview next week, which will be going out on the 18th. Uh so do tune in for that. And Matt will be with whoever is available to to talk through uh the Exeter Chiefs game and the World Cup, obviously, and hopefully victories of Saracens in England um uh in those games.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that would that would certainly be good. I think I reckon you could have got away with saying it might be merry weather, but apart from that, I'm starting to think of another Floyd. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, no, I'm looking forward to that anyway. So uh anyway, well, thank you everybody for listening in. I hope you've enjoyed our uh our little ranting and raving and uh and uh discussions there about all things rugby Saracens in the wider world, and we'll say thanks for now, all the best, and Sarah.
SPEAKER_03See ya.