Fezcast - The Saracens Supporters Podcast
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Fezcast - The Saracens Supporters Podcast
S4 E7: Implosion and Inspiration (with Floyd Steadman)
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Jez, Matt and Barry take a deep breath and discuss a record defeat with the first league match ending in a dismantling at the hands of Exeter.
But the main feature of the show is an interview with Saracens Hall of Famer Floyd Steadman about his life and his career in the amateur days of rugby as the first English born black scrum half.
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[Disclaimer: The Fezcast is brought to you on behalf of the Saracens Supporters Association and is not an official product of Saracens Ltd]
Title Music (from Season 4): "Herald" by This Winter Machine
You're listening to the Fezcast, produced on behalf of the Saracen Supporters Association and featuring the independent thoughts, rants, and rambles of Saracens fans and special guests. If you'd like your opinion to be heard on the show, you can find the Fezcast on Facebook or Fezcast underscore SSLE on Instagram and whatever Twitter is known as these days. But for now, enjoy this week's show. It is. Not lost count yet.
SPEAKER_06It's me, Matt, and Barry um talking about what's going on on the weekend. Plus, in the middle of that, we're the bread to a sandwich um sandwich bidder, where I've had a chat with an absolute um belt-in um interviewee, a club legend. I mean, 470 games to club. Floyd Steadman OBE spoke to me last week prior to the weekend. So a bit of our conversation kind of like got thrown at uh a bit out of date, but still, it was a lovely conversation we had with Floyd, wasn't it, Matt?
SPEAKER_02It was, yeah. No, everyone uh really should be looking forward to uh to listening to that. So what do you want to do, mate? Do you want to go straight into it and do some nice stuff first, or do you want to talk about the misery of the uh of the weekend?
SPEAKER_06Well, let's get the misery out of the way, I think, because I think we need to talk about the World Cup and obviously what's happened there. But um I don't I don't know, Barry. I think bowling out exits for 65 um all 10 wickets isn't bad going, is it Barry?
SPEAKER_03Well, no, I mean some some silly so-and-so of the Premiership Rugby website has put the put the table up upside down. I mean, I I just can't get over it. Do they not double check these things anymore? Is there no sub-editing?
SPEAKER_06It is, it's amazing, isn't it? I mean, obviously, I didn't see the game, um, and I think probably um I've done the right thing, they're not seeing the game. I haven't even gone to look back at the highlights, but one of those games, I suppose, Matt, isn't it? Smally made made mention of it in his interview as well, didn't he? He said, you know, it's happened to us before. I think we remember getting tonked by wasps one season. We still went on and won the won it that year, but I mean that was a rude awakening, wasn't it, Matt? Uh very, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um I was I was sort of gonna I was gonna try and talk about Saracen's performance, but actually, I think the the fair comment really is that there wasn't one. Um we just didn't turn up at all. Um, and I think there's no there's no getting around it. It's probably the worst Saracen's performance I've I've certainly seen in my life as a Saracens fan. Um, is worse than those two big losses against Wasps. I know you know we've had one of them was sort of during Covid, and as we got done for the salary cap and we just chucked it in for the rest of the season, and then and then the Valentine's Day massacre as well, but but this performance against Exeter was was worse than that. And um nobody's hidden away from it. And like you say, Mark McCall um had plenty to say. Um I think it's it's fair to say that Exeter as well were very, very good. We we gave them every chance they needed to be to be very, very good. Um, and it's nice to see our uh esteemed colleague Sam is still doubling down on his uh his theory that Exeter are going to finish bottom this season. Um but look, I I I think we learn from this match in hindsight. Um I think how we respond to it and how we perform against Bath and perhaps more so the next away fixture that we play, I think that is more of a of a test of what this loss actually um actually does for us. But yeah, it was bloody awful. Barry?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um can't really argue with that. The the the only thing I mean, yes, we've we've had these results before. The only thing that did worry me on this one was that there seemed to be a lack of leadership on on the pitch. Um there didn't seem to be anyone getting hold of the players and saying, look, what you know, what are we doing here? This this isn't good enough, this isn't us. Um, and and that did worry me slightly. And uh yeah, talking about the next away game, I mean that's that's an easy enough assignment, Gloucester.
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, this is this is the thing, isn't it? That you know, and it goes back to when we discussed what had happened in the season so far with Dan Vicker. Vickers, and you know, they made all the right noises at that time, but those right noises have got to be backed up with actions, and it hasn't been this week. And I think they'll admit that, and they'll admit that as much as anything. But you know, you go for a premiership cup uh competition with your superstars away, yeah, fair dues, but all clubs have lost some players. Um you know, we brought back into lads who've been away at the World Cup in Marco and Fio, made no difference. I just don't think the preparation this season has been right. Uh, has somebody taken their eye off the ball a little bit? Or is it just circumstances have meant that you know things haven't gone right? The big concern is now that you know, as we'll discuss in the third part, England have got through, so they're those players are away now for another two weeks with the likelihood that they're gonna need an appreciable time off afterwards because of the intensity that they're now playing at. Could we, you know, you can't lose a season in one game. You can't win a league championship in one game. You could go a long way to to causing yourself enough problems later on. And if it's gonna be six, eight weeks before we've got players back at full strength at full speed, this could be a dodgy season for us if we don't buck our ideas up soon.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the point you've made there about one game doesn't make a season is something that I definitely want to pick up on because there's been I've seen people we know quite well on social media through running the Fez Cast, there's been people that have um that have said there's players that were playing against Exeter that should never wear the shirt again. Now that quite frankly is ridiculous. Um it's one match, it's a one-off, hopefully. Um if we're still talking in this way in three, four, five weeks' time, then maybe we've got a case for that. But such a big reaction to one loss that we've very, very rarely seen as a Saracens fan. I think we just need to have a bit of a level head at the moment. But I do agree with you that it it does look like we're undercooked, and that is pretty poor considering there has been a four or five game um Prem Cup on the run. So, you know, we we don't know what's going on in the background, we don't know what's going on in training, we don't know what the coaching team's plan is. Um sometimes these things just do happen and you can prepare really well, and all of a sudden the things just go really, really tits up. I mean, the the the one comparison that I can draw fairly recently, Jez, is the game that you and I were at, the women's game against Gloucester at home when absolutely everything went wrong, no one looked at the races whatsoever, and we were standing and thinking, what on earth is going on? Now Gloucester went on to win the league that this season. Um and it did turn out that in that game, actually, most of the girls were on the bog five minutes before the game. So there was that going on in the background, you know. We we don't know. Um, but yeah, let's just just wait and see what happens in the next few games.
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely, I think that's absolutely right, isn't it? We've got some games coming up. The reaction is what we're gonna be looking for, Barry. Um, and if there is no reaction, then obviously, you know. But to pick up on what Matt said there, there is also, I think, from a lot of the fan base, a sense of entitlement that's quite natural because we've got used to winning stuff, and when it doesn't quite go right, um, you know, the reaction often is surprise, shock, whatever it may be. Um we've seen it in the Rugby World Cup, certainly with France and Ireland on the weekends. You know, you get used to winning, and then when you do get a thumping, it's very hard to take. You know, if you're if you're buff who've taken thumpins after thumpings after thumpings, they're used to it, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's it's been it I do have some sympathy with people being um slightly spoilt with our our recent success. Um, but yeah, I mean for me, all of those players are are still in massive amounts of credit or are just literally uh putting their first, you know, taking their first steps on their on their Saracens journey. So no no um brick bats for me. It was one of those games, it didn't work out. Let's see how we bounce back on Saturday, let's hope we bounce back on Saturday, um, and we'll we'll take it from there. Yeah, if if we if we haven't won in the in the next three or four weeks, then we'll come back and and revisit it, and maybe I'll be wrong. But I I don't think there's a major major problem there. It was just one of those things that didn't work out. We did improve in the second half, it has to be said. Um, but then that was quite a low bar. I think I could have tripped over that one, to be quite honest with you.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. Look, let's uh move on from there. Well, you know, we've we've touched on it, we have to touch on it, but we don't want to dwell on it. What we do want to dwell on is a club legend who I spoke to last week, thoroughly enjoyed, a really engaging personality, a fabulously honest person who's got so much uh to tell us. Um, so we might as well let him do that and hand over to myself and Floyd Steadman OBE. Um, and then we'll have a quick chat about that afterwards, and we'll do the World Cup as well.
SPEAKER_05You're listening to the Fez Cast. Listening to the Fez Cast.
SPEAKER_02Hi, Alex Osterberry here, director of rugby for Saracens Women. You're listening to the Saracens Fez Cast.
SPEAKER_04This is the Fezcast.
SPEAKER_06Well, I'd like to welcome to the Fez Cast an absolute legend of Saracens, but not only a legend of Saracens, but also someone who's had an amazing life uh in education and also in rugby, but also I mean Black History Month. Um, we're joined by a man who's played 469 times for Saracens, been a very successful uh career in education after his time there. Um being awarded uh honours by uh you know the royal family and OBE no less, Floyd Steadman. Welcome to the Fezcast. Uh, we really have uh been looking forward to speaking to you for a long, long time.
SPEAKER_01James, thank you very much indeed. And I can see that you've done your homework. I feel very, very humbled. So and thank you for inviting me onto the podcast.
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely, Floyd. I mean, first things first, actually, I mean, before we drill down into your life and your time as Saracens and everything like that, you're enjoying your rugby at the moment? You've been watching the World Cup, I assume.
SPEAKER_01Enjoy, enjoying is possibly not the right term, but um look, I mean, the bottom line is this I say to people, you know, that three or four months ago, people saying England weren't going to get out of the pool. We've dropped the pool, we're playing Fiji in a quarterfinal, and we have a more than realistic chance of making the semi-final, and that's got to be a result.
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely. I said that much um much the same on last week's face cast when Barry, my colleague, asked me, What's success? And I think a semi-final is successful given where they were from coming from, and perhaps builds us into the next World Cup cycle uh quite nicely, doesn't it, Floyd?
SPEAKER_01It does, and I've heard I've heard rumours that you know the coach is going to be bold and perhaps put Smith at fullback.
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely, yeah. I mean, I I have actually been critical of Marcus Smith in the past as a standoff at international level, but I I've seen him actually knuckle down and work hard, and and and I think he adds something to that. We're Vowin at 10, obviously, and that's somebody said that. But also, obviously, you know, I can see we can't, the people listening to the podcast can't see, but we're both um coloured up, as it were. You've got your Saracens top on. Obviously, you still follow the men in black um from afar now because you're down in Cornwall, obviously.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. I mean, I I now live in West Cornwall, and uh, I know we're going to get on to why I moved down to West Cornwall, but um the first result I always look for, of course, is the men in black, the Saracens. Um, and I'm incredibly lucky because as well as being an ex-captain and in the Hall of Fame and a vice president, um, I do get invited up to a number of the the home games in London, but also the away games that are home games for me if they're playing at Exeter or Bristol or Bath.
SPEAKER_06Well, indeed. Well, we're recording this on the Thursday before the uh premiership season kicks off. Um, so uh are you going to Sandy Park on um on the weekend to see Saracens play?
SPEAKER_01Sadly, I'm not because I've got a commitment down in the West Country. I do a lot of talks and presentations, so sadly I'm not this time around. But I that I will be looking out for the result and I expect a win.
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely, let's hope so, shall we? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's always nice, it's always nice to win against Exeter.
SPEAKER_06Oh, absolutely, yeah. It's one of those ones you look for, isn't it, everybody? But let's talk about yourself, Lloyd. And as I say, you know, 469 games for Saracens, mainly during the 1980s. I mean, when did you make your debut, Floyd?
SPEAKER_01So Jeff, I played for Saracens for 10 seasons from 1980 to 1990. And what people forget is back then, certainly at the start of my career, you'd have a game every Saturday, you'd have matches many Sundays, and you'll also have some midweek matches as well.
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely. I mean, I was 18 in 1990, was playing playing rugby from school into uh college, club, rugby, and everything. And uh I playing four or five games a season when you're 18, kind of like you think you could do it, and then you realise you pay for it later. I mean, I'm running a marathon this weekend in uh in York, and my knees will be paying for it, and that's a lot to do with the amount of effort we put down there, but yeah, I mean, you came into uh into rugby. Now I alluded to it at the start, and we might as well um hit this straight away. You come from a um a background that perhaps certainly 1980, you didn't see many black players playing rugby. I mean, I remember I think Chris Ote being the first black player playing for England that came came into my um orbit, as it were. I mean, how did you get involved in the game yourself?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a really good question, Jess. And I actually started playing rugby when I got to senior school, Kingsbury High School, uh, a comprehensive school in Northwest London, um, an ex-grammar school, amalgamated with a secondary modern school, a very, very large school. We had a Welsh P teacher, Brian Jones, and it was the first game session, and he lined all of the boys up, about 170 of us. We thought we were going to choose between rugby and football. He had other ideas, he looked us over up and down and he decided. And when it came to my turn, one of the smallest but quite broad shoulders, he pointed to rugby. And I was just gutted because you know, Northwest London, we all play football. Um, but halfway through that first session, I just fell in love with the game. And uh, you know, I was lucky that I was quite good at rugby, I was tough, I enjoyed the physical side of the game, and I had the skills. Um, and it was a Wells P teacher, a snap decision that got me into rugby, and I I'm eternally grateful for that snap decision.
SPEAKER_06Well, that's yeah, amazing. I was quite it's quite um uh similar to my story. I I went to secondary school and you know, didn't really know about rugby. 1983 I started a secondary school, played football, kept on getting sent off. And I had a Welsh um PE teacher who was uh played for for Wales B, Roy Lewis. He turned around and said, You obviously have a um an enjoyment of uh causing pain on people, and uh perhaps you'd like to go play rugby. And it ended up playing back row, yeah. I mean it's it's uh it's great how you find that way in. But you know, from you from from your from your background, was it was rugby? I mean, you say rugby was never ever really on your radar. So, you know, I mean what was the reaction within your family, within your um your social social group to you turning around and said, you know what, I'm gonna play rugby.
SPEAKER_01Well, I suppose, you know, my story's different to most others, Jas. And you alluded at the start, but it is different. And look, when I was uh a teenager, I wasn't at home, I was in the children's home. Um, and so um I was sadly I I my father was a bully, and um I ran away from home when I was 10 for three weeks. And when I decided to go back um with a policeman, the father, my father decided that I wasn't going to stay in the home, he didn't want me. So I was put into care. So as a teenager, I grew up in care. Um, and on the one hand, you're not in a family home environment, but on the other hand, I was in a loving environment with wonderful people and people that pushed me, and they could see that I enjoyed my rugby, and they pushed me and supported me to play rugby.
SPEAKER_06And did you find then that rugby became a family for you? I mean, the one thing we always talk about Saracens, particularly now in the professional era, under the stewardship of the Ray family and everything, is this whole idea of family, of belonging, that it's not just you as the player, it's your wife, it's your kids, whatever. I mean, did rugby union give you that um as you grew up?
SPEAKER_01Oh, definitely. I mean, I mean, I would honestly say just that rugby was one of the points of continuity and stability for me. You know, when you're when you're from a broken home and you are constantly being told by people that you can't do certain things, primarily because of the colour of your skin. And you understand that if you respond in a certain way, you're just playing up to how they want you to. So I never ever responded as the angry black man with a chip on my shoulder. I rose above that to just prove to people that I was good enough to do to do what they said I I couldn't do it. And and to your earlier point, look, when I got into rugby, there weren't many black um boys in my school, but the world's pea teacher put most of us into the rugby team, which actually then became a very, very strong rugby team, actually, one of the best in the county. Um, and so that World's P teacher, I think, was very, very smart in realizing that these talented black boys could really strengthen the rugby team. And we did strengthen that rugby team. And it's interesting because I was successful in my rugby career. I would say that at least two or three of the other boys should have been, but didn't have perhaps the guidance, the direction that I was given, so dropped out when they they potentially had just as much skill and ability as me.
SPEAKER_06Well, it's an interesting point you make there, and it's something that I've always talked about. And we're going away from the rugby world and perhaps looking at your uh later career in education, you know, personally I live in a town in North Oxfordshire. I live on a former council of state. I go around when I'm doing my training runs and you see kids out on the street, whatever, like that. And it always amazes me that potentially the next captain of England rugby, or the the person who's got the cure for motor neuron disease associated that I run run marathons for, or whatever, could be there on that on that counselor statement because they're not given the opportunities and they're not given the guidance. You know, you came through, but as you say, there's three or four lads who perhaps should have come through and didn't. I mean, how that how does that affect you later life in what you've done educationally and and that you still do?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I suppose, Joe, you're absolutely right. And one of my mantras since being a young teacher has always been you can't be what you can't see. And let me give an example, and I'm gonna ask you a question. I'm sorry to put you on the spot. Apart from me, over the last 40 years, I want you to name another English-born black scrum half that's played premiership level rugby.
SPEAKER_06English born, all blindly. Um, I mean, yeah, again, I would probably have to go to Google to find it, and and I'm not sure I would. I mean, there's uh you're gonna you're gonna tell me an answer, and I'm not gonna go, oh, yeah, I should have realized that. But yeah, go on.
SPEAKER_01Well, the answer I believe is none. Yeah, I mean, people people say straight away um a chap called Ardwell Cardooney, who was um Middle Eastern background, and I deliberately say black um Afro-Cabbean background. Uh and because as supplementary is you can't be what you can't see, because when I was growing up and playing rugby, people were trying to push me out towards the wing, you know, the black boys are far, stick them on the wing and they'll run around everyone. Or you had the big power fours, because when I went to Saracens, a man that just left Saracens and went to WAS was a prop called Clint McGregor, yeah. Um, who was on the verge of getting England caps. And in the final back in the day when you had the possibles v. the probables, he was in the probables team and and one of the Gloucester plops was playing for the possibles and destroyed him, and he lost out on an England cap. Um and he left Souris as I joined Souris. You know, um and I remember the other black guy that I knew that was playing at that level was a winger for Bedford called Bob Genim. Um played for England B, but didn't quite play for England. And earlier, you quite rightly said about Chris Otting, uh, 1988. He actually was the second black man to play. The first was Jimmy Peters back in 1906, Jez.
SPEAKER_06Right, yeah. I mean, this is this is the thing, isn't it? And I mean, you you you always have the suspicion that you know if you've all if you're called Chris O'Tey, the surname kind of perhaps gives an indication of your of your um ethnic uh origins. If you're called Clint McGregor, is there somebody at the RFU going, uh, well, maybe he's got Scottish blood or something like that, and you know, and it's when they suddenly see somebody turning up that and it goes back to your comment that you you can't be that that racism that you was around in in the sport, and perhaps to a certain extent, still remains in some parts. I mean, I remember playing, and you know, and as I say, I played throughout the 1990s, and we had a lad played rugby for us, he was an REF pilot with the Queen's Flight, and um we called him Spider. That was his nickname, yeah. And it was perfectly innocent, you know, in so much as uh I never put two and two together, and I'm a pretty politically socially aware kind of guy growing up in that period of time. I never put two and two together and really thought about it. And I remember actually going down with Abingdon and Spider playing on the wing, and we played down in the Forester Dean against the team in a cup match or something. And I remember Spider, he was a winger and he was ridiculously quick getting the ball into space, and we suddenly heard this big booming voice shout, get the and it was the C word, and wow, and we turned around and it was the second row captain of the team we were playing. It was as it was black as well, and it was like this acceptance that to be part of this group, you had to accept this casual racism.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but but but we have to be careful because uh I do a lot of talks and presentations, and I catch on this, Jess, and I say that one thing that we mustn't forget is language has changed and evolved over time, and language that was accepted in the 70s and 80s, some of it we know is not acceptable now. And I'll give you an easy example. Three programs that when I was a schoolboy growing up, I hated Love Thy Neighbor on the buses till Death House Du Park. The openly awful racist language was used, not just on television, but I'd go into school and classmates would call me that. Now, that doesn't make my classmates racist at all. That was language that was accepted back then. So we've got to be careful because there were times when people use language because it's deemed to be accepted, but it doesn't mean that they're a racist. Did that make sense, Jess?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, absolutely. I I it's it's all to do with education, isn't it? And and and understanding um and and being prepared to listen to people's experience and learn from that. I mean, as I say, I grew up in a small village in Oxfordshire. Um, we had one black kid who was um an adopted child of a local family um who he he took all sorts of abuse, and you sit there now looking back at it, and you think, God, that you know, but then that's it was the 1970s, and you just think how awful it is, and it's so amazing now that we can move on and we can see people um black people or people from other cultures and whatever are seen just because now I mean we'll look at someone, one of your proteges, I suppose, Maro Atoji. He is looked upon as an athlete first, nothing more than that. Now, he is very aware of his his origins, he's very proud of his origins. You can see that it drives him, it's part of him, but it doesn't define him, does it? I I think is what I'm trying to say.
SPEAKER_01No, no, and you're absolutely right, and I think that shows how society's moved on. You know, some people say, Oh, we need to move at a faster pace. But my response is you know what, society's really moved on. Just look back to the 1970s and 1980s, and what and what I had to put up with as a boy and as a teenager and as a young man. Now, teenagers and young black men and brown men and women don't have to put up with the same things. But be careful because it's not all just racist abuse. A lot of it was just language that was accepted back then, behaviors that were accepted back then that we now understand aren't accepted. And so, you know, I'm very, very mindful. I don't just call everything, oh, that's racist. And I'll give you an excellent example. Um, I don't mention the team, but because we're talking to a rugby order, they will know that there are only four big teams in the West Country. And the first time I was made captain, and I led my team out against this um this big team. Um, and as I led my team out, there were monkey charts because it wasn't just football that had the monkey charts, people were screaming and shouting, abused. But the comment that I remembered, someone shouts out, gosh, there were three of them. And that meant that Saracens had the temerity to select three black players. And my response, well, well done to Saracens, because Saracens looked beyond the you know the racism, they picked both the players that they thought um could do the job. And I've always, always been grateful to Saracens, because bearing in mind, you know, I was the first black elite scrum half, and I know that the board, the Saracens board at that time, would have been put under pressure to select someone else. I was um the first black captain of a major rugby team. Again, the board had faith in me, so well done to them. So they've they've been trailblack blazers in their own way.
SPEAKER_06Well, it's it is remarkable, isn't it? Because when you when you think about it, that you know, just because of the colour of your skin does not make any difference to your ability to do something. And it's you know, if you're an organization that's looking at a large percentage of of your potential um assets and saying, well, just because he's that colour, I'm not gonna pick him, is is ridiculous. I mean, it takes me back. I mean, we mentioned it last a couple of weeks ago. Ed Griffiths, who's former Saracen CEO, who was a CEO of South Africa when they won the World Cup in 1995, and he was asked, What are the two best, you know, the worst thing he did and the best thing he did. And the worst thing he did was they never sacked all the players, but the best thing they did was they took the World Cup into the townships and showed the black kids in Soweto or wherever that rugby was a game that they could play. And now you look at that South African side and you look at the Will and say, Um, you know, you've got your Chesley and Colby's the guy, you know, so many black players have come through into the South African rugby. And you know, this is the country that 30 years ago was the most racist country in the world.
SPEAKER_01And and and it's the power of, remember, you can't be what you can't see. It's that that's the power. And these, the current generation of South African rugby players, all colours, are going to inspire the next generation. And that's why people like Marrow are so important. Um, because he he will inspire so many people.
SPEAKER_06Oh, absolutely. I mean, it is so important. I mean, the last question about your playing career though, Floyd, is I mean, how difficult is it for you to be the first, as it were? Because you didn't have anybody who looks like you to look up to. But if you were, say, for argument's sake, I'm thinking of high-profile black players that followed you, the likes of Steve Ajomo or Victor Abugu at Bar, for instance, they've got somebody there who's who's blazed that trail. I mean, do you see yourself as a blaze uh as a trailblazer? Do you see yourself as an inspiration?
SPEAKER_01It's interesting you say that, Jess, because when you're a young player, no, you don't, you just see yourself as a player, and you just want to play um to the best of your ability and get to the highest start, highest standard that you think you're capable of. Um, and when people were trying to put me down and saying, well, you shouldn't be playing in that position because black players can't, I'm just like, yes, I can. I think I'm good enough. And you proved them wrong. Because in life, we've all got choices to make. You know, we're all gonna we're all gonna have setbacks. And what do you do? Do you just accept the setback or do you fight against it? I've always had the resilience to say, actually, I think I can do this. I think I am better than what you're trying to say. So when I was a young player, I didn't see myself as a trailblazer. I just wanted to play rugby, play scrum half, play for thousands, play to the best of my ability. And it's only now looking back and thinking about some of the challenges that I had, I thought, yeah, actually, it was quite hard, and I'm proud of my achievements.
SPEAKER_06Well, of course, I mean, the the next point to come from that, Floyd, is that obviously when you played, rugby was an amateur game. So you had to have a nine to five job to pay the bills. You went into education, and once you finished playing, you continued your career in education, and I suppose it's that point that you truly do become inspirational because you've grown up, you've matured, you become an adult, you've had all those life experiences, and then suddenly you've got kids in front of you that you can inspire. I mean, how important was it to you that you you did that? Is it and and and that become a driver in your in your later life?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was hugely important. And and part of the driver was that I was determined to give children the opportunities that I never had, you know, because I was I was basically um beaten up by my father. I was kicked out of the house by my father after running away. Um, and I was determined that I didn't want I wanted youngsters to feel that they could achieve their potential. Because despite all the challenges that I faced, I feel that I achieved my potential. And because I achieved my potential, what did it do? It gave me choices and it opened doors. And I know that there are so many youngsters, girls and boys, that if they can just work hard and have um someone behind them supporting them, maybe it could open doors for them, it could give them choices whether it's done for me. That makes sense, Jess?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, absolutely. It's funny. I mean, I'm currently watching um Ted Lasso, the TV series about football, and there's one character in there, Jamie Tart, who has a relationship with a father who is abusive, and that he's achieved, and he's playing premiership football. And I know this is just fiction and everything, he blazed ring and everything. But the the subset is about how he is doing this almost in spite of his father, and everything he's achieved, you know, and there's one beautiful part where Ted Lasser, the manager, turns around and says, You can do this because you're doing it because you want to, you know, prove something to your dad, but you need to forgive your dad, and then you'll you'll move on. Do you ever sit down and think, Did your dad ever see what you achieved? Do you think your dad was ever proud, or did you did you just have to move on from that?
SPEAKER_01Well, I had to move on, Jess, because he kicked me out when I was 10. Uh, and apart from a very, very brief period when I was 18, and I needed him to sign some forms for me to go off to university, I never ever saw him again. Uh, and I felt that he wasn't there for me when I really needed my father. So I'm gonna have to get on with my own life. But importantly, I've got three grown-up sons, and as they've been growing up, I've always, always been there for them because I don't want them to go through what I went through when I was a young man. Um, the other thing that I think is important, Jess, is that for those of us that are fortunate enough to be relatively successful in our successful in our lives and our careers, I truly believe that we have a responsibility to give something back, however we do it. And I'll give you a simple idea. So I've been lucky enough to be headmaster of four independent prep schools. Again, not many people that look like me work in independent prep schools, let alone becoming the boss. And in in one of those schools, I set up something called Random Acts of Kindness Week. And there was a week where at the start of the week we all pulled the name out of the hack, teachers and students. And every day we had to do something or say something kind to the person that we pulled out of the hack. Simple example. I now live in West Cornwall, and two or three um times a week I'll pop down to local cafes. They all know me. And sometimes if I see an old person there by themselves having lunch or having a coffee, I will just quietly go up and I'll pay. I won't tell them because I don't want any praise out of it. And then I'll just leave the leave the cafe, and then they'll obviously find out later on. It's just little things like that, just giving back, because we can give back.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, absolutely. I think it's uh it's such an important when we look at the world as it is at the moment. Uh why can't we just love instead of fight? I suppose is is something, and that comes through from you now. I mean, Floyd, we'll come to the end of this this uh chat, which has been absolutely fascinating. But you mentioned there, you're down in West Cornwall. Um, bit of a difference from London, it has to be said. I mean, you've retired, although I know you do you still keep your finger in pies, don't you? And you do this and bits and pieces. And of course, you wrote your biography a couple of years ago, which is a fantastic read. But I mean, why West Cornwall? What took you down there and and and what's life now like for Floyd and his family?
SPEAKER_01Do you know, Jeff? That's a really important question to ask me because um when I was a young man at University Borough College, I met and fell in love with a young woman from West Cornwall, uh, Denise Friggins that she was, um, and she was in this little village just outside of Penzance. Uh, and I first came down here back in 1979. Um uh West Corn was a different place since then, but there were still not many people that looked like me. But um, I've loved coming back down with my wife to visit her family and then brought my boys and each year would come down two or three times a year. And we didn't see it as going on holiday, we would we were visiting relatives. And and to talk bluntly, because of what happened in my family, my wife's family became my family, and they were actually fantastic and incredibly welcoming and warm. Um, very, very tragically, I lost my wife to cancer seven years ago. Uh, and I need to tell you a little bit more about um how she's influenced me. So, about 16 years ago, she was the only person that knew my story, knew the whole journey, the challenges. No, people knew snippets, friends knew snippets, family knew snippets, but they did not know the whole story. Even my sons didn't know the whole story until I until I gave them the manuscript a month before it went to the printers. Um, and 16 years ago, she said, Floyd, you've got to write a book because your story is such an inspirational, it's different, it will inspire people. And at the time I said, There's no point, there's no chance. I don't know where to start. Um, and then I lost her to Kant, and there were literally 12 brutally short, intense weeks from the diagnosis at the end of August until I lost in the middle of November. And the first thing I did is I promised her that I was going to do this book and dedicated to her. So if anyone's got my book, if you open to the first page, it's a dedication to my wife. Because she also said all of those years ago, when you write the book, Floyd, you're going to call it a week one summer because you ran away from home a week one summer. But about gosh, 10 years ago, when we started to talk about, you know, what are we going to do for the next phase of our lives together when the boys graduate and grow up and leave the nest, we decided that we wanted to sell up in London and move down to the West Country. There's a family down here, and you know, and I didn't have any family in London, so to speak. Um, and when I lost it, I took some time to reflect and I thought, you know what, we've we've already made the decision. I'm gonna follow it through. So here I am in a little village just outside of Penzance in the West Country.
SPEAKER_06Well, Floyd, I mean, one thing I'm gonna say, and uh you can you can poo-poo this all you like, or anything like that. Uh, a few years ago, I wrote a blog for a friend of mine about the hard men of rugby, and it was quite interesting because what I did was I didn't, you know, I turned around Richard Hill, hard man of rugby, Jack Berger, tackles walls with his head, you know, a hard man of rugby. But being a hard man of rugby is not just about what goes on on the pitch, I don't think. And you definitely are there because it's it's about bravery and it's not about just bravery looking at a 17-stone prop running at you and saying, I'm gonna tackle you as a scrum half, it's about fronting up to prejudices, it's about fronting up to challenges that are different to everybody else's and challenges that you've had for your life. And I think you, Floyd, have typified that. And not only have you typified that, but you also typify for me what rugby is all about. And you know, I personally we do a thing where we we we make certain players cult club cult legends. The players that perhaps should have played for England or their country should have got greater um what's the word of looking recognition recognition, recognition, whatever, yeah. You know, and everybody in the world should know about Floyd Stedman OBE as a rugby player, first and foremost, but a trailblazing rugby player. And I have to say that your honesty and your uh openness to sit down and talk to us about things that are obviously quite difficult, and you know, it's been absolutely wonderful. And I have absolutely loved this chat so much, Floyd. So I will say on behalf of everybody who listens to Festcast, everybody within the Saracens family, thank you for being who you were as a player, who you were as an educator, and who you were as a man and a person. Um, I do recommend you read your book, it is absolutely fantastic and learn more.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Jess, you know, that's so kind of you, and I really appreciate that. Can I just say one last thing? And that is when people say to me, you know, how have you managed to survive and be relatively successful? And I say, look, I've worked hard from being a young man to focus on kindness, empathy, resilience, and hard work. And if we can just promote those things, wouldn't the world be a better place?
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely, Floyd, absolutely. And yeah, I I'm putting you up there now to be one of the people to lead the world in the future, even if it's just by by uh by example and attitude. Floyd, thank you ever so much for joining us on the first cast. It's been an absolute joy talking to you. And obviously, um, if anybody ever sees you at the Stonex, buy you a pint, obviously, or or whatever, or a coffee.
SPEAKER_01And uh I do like I do like a West Indian rhym.
SPEAKER_06Don't we all? Yes, absolutely. But yeah, no, um, thank you again for joining us, and thank you for everything you've done for Saracens and for the wider world. And we wish you all the best uh down in West Cornwall. And uh, if we're ever passing, we'll wave at you uh as we go past.
SPEAKER_01You're very welcome. And as I said to the supporters, I do try and get up to the Stonets probably only four or five times a year, but um, I do try and get up there. So if people want to sort of just um stop me and have a chat, I'm always happy to talk to people.
SPEAKER_06Right, absolutely. I certainly will do because I think there's more and more to talk about with you. Uh, and I would love to do that. So, but thank you ever so much, Floyd, and we'll hand back now to the guys um to uh finish off the show this week.
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SPEAKER_06I mean, I'm sticking my hand up in the air here. I'm gonna be biased because I did the interview, but I thought that was a pretty damn good interview. Um, and Floyd was an absolutely wonderful guest. Um, um, the stuff that he came out with uh and and the way that he he kept it, you know, as as a player, I think, who came through and he would have been subjected to a level he had to do things so much better than everybody else, and he holds no rancor for that. He just got on and did it. He's he's a credit to himself, but also a credit to the game, Matt.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, yeah. Um, I mean it's a you don't need me to explain why, but we've spoken to Maggie Alphonse and now Floyd Steadman, who who have both had relatively similar stories. Um and have both spoken to us, and and it's just incredible to me the sort of humility they both have and how sort of grounded they are, despite everything that they've faced over the over their career and over their over their lives and what they've actually achieved. Um post that both just incredible. So so for Floyd, yeah. Um I'd just urge everyone who's who's been a Samaritan's fan for less time um than well, you have, Jesus Um just to just have a look back at and try and look back at the amateur days of Saracens. It's a very difficult thing to do because the history seems to be wiped a little bit occasionally. But take a trip to Bramley Road and just look at some of the pictures and the memorabilia and things that are around there and Floyd's place in that because it is definitely something. And yeah, fantastic interview.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and indeed, and I think what came out of it as well is that legacy of the amateur game that perhaps you don't get any more Barry in so much as that those players like Floyd Steadman had to hold down jobs whilst playing rugby at the very highest level. And you know, you think of the famous ones, Tim Robert at Northampton Saints being in the army. You know, I mean, there were certain clubs where you went along and you got jobs in the city and basically turned up and had a lunch every now and then. But other people did actually have to work bloody hard. Mike Teague at Gloucester. I mean, the famous story of him was that you used to walk along King's home and you'd see Tegee on the top of a building laying a few bricks, you'd think, oh, he'll not be playing this afternoon. And suddenly he'd be turning up an hour later to play. And you know, Floyd's his career in education. And you know, when people like Mara Toge still refer to him as Mr. Steedman, you know, they don't he's not Floyd, he he's Mr. Steadman. The the respect that he has gains just through being a brilliant person is quite amazing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, not only a top rugby player, but as you say, uh clearly an influential and an inspiring teacher um throughout his his career outside of rugby. And and we talk a lot about mental strength of professional sports people. The mental strength of of both Maggie and Floyd to put up with everything they had to put up with as they were playing the game must be uh uh incredible people.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, absolutely 100%. Well, I hope you all enjoyed that um interview we did with him. And indeed, what I would urge you also to do is to have a look um on the RFU YouTube site because last week they put out a video all about Floyd's life, which um uh you're giving him the recognition, perhaps a little bit too late, Matt. I don't know. I mean, it's but better late than never. I mean, you know, you look at players that they should have been applauded and and revered when they played, and yet yet we have to wait 30 odd years for them to get that recognition. But the recognition is important, and I'm sure you'll put up the links on the Fezcast Twitter. I'll do it on the Facebook page, but yeah, go and have a look at that video. It's quite amazing, isn't it, Matt?
SPEAKER_02It is, yeah. They cram an awful lot into 12 or 13 minutes, to be honest. And and like I said, Marrow Atoji features um quite heavily in that video, and you can see firsthand just the the respect that Marrow has for Floyd's dead, and as does John Buckton, another legend of um of of Saracens in the uh in the amateur days, and just you know, he is very, very highly regarded. Um, so yeah, definitely have a look at that. We'll make sure we put a few links up.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. Well look, thanks to Floyd for doing that for us. Thanks, Ronnie, for um at the club for uh putting me in touch with Floyd as well. Um yeah, we I thoroughly enjoyed that. Absolutely fantastic. Now, we need to finish off this week's show and talk about the quarterfinals and obviously mention the fact that um obviously, as ever, you look at that World Cup trophy, and still the only Northern Hemisphere side you'll see on there is England with France, Ireland, and Wales all going out at the um quarterfinal stages. Um, shall we take it in order? Go Wales, Argentina first. I'll say number one. Fairly obvious, sorry for Wales. They lost a couple of key players, didn't they, in the in the um before the game and then during the game. Um, but Argentina have really grown into this tournament, Barry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if if you look at their performance in their first game, obviously, which was which was against England, um, you you wonder how we've got two sides from from group D through into the semi-finals. But you know, Argentina were just were just very good on on Saturday. They they stuck at it, they wore the Welsh down. They they were, as you say, a little bit fortunate with a couple of uh a couple of injuries and a couple of players missing, but they they just stuck at it, kept in the game, and and when it came to it, got the uh got the break of that intercept try.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. I mean, that was a piece of absolute brilliance from a very old head in uh Nicolas Sanchez, who absolutely read it. What I will say is, and this is what um we'll bring this back to Saracens, what was quite interesting, I felt, seeing Nick Tompkins, who is still at international level, reasonably inexperienced, particularly if you look at the likes of Dan Bigger and um you know George North around him. But for him to go to Sam Costello, put his arm around him and just tell him, you know, mate, shit happens, you know, because that's what it was. He was he was just burgled by a very, very canny operator that nine times out of ten, that'd have come off. Wells down the overhead, scored a try and there in the semifinals. So it's really good to see Nick Tompkins understanding, you know, through his own disappointment. And I think that does come from that Saracens kind of um ethos, as it were, that you know, I would imagine that Owen Farrell's done that for Nick Tompkins on occasion, or or Alex Good has done it on occasion, and he's returned that favour to a young lad who's got a bright future in the game, I think, Sam Costello. But you know, that was really good of him, Matt.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, yeah. And and and you're quite right. Um, all of Saracen's success has always come after a pretty um harrowing loss in a final or something like that. So, yeah, the like likes of Nick Tompkins and things his experience at club level was has probably paid paid difference there. And I agree with you, Sam Costello is potentially the the real future at 10 for Wales, and yeah, a result that in fact all all four results really could have gone either way, um, swinging on one moment, really. So it's been been a great set of quarterfinals. We'll talk about the other three.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, well, absolutely. Well, let's talk about Ireland because I mean the Ireland game, we see the end of a career. We saw an end of a career with Wales with Dan Bigger, um, and another ten uh vowed out uh bowed out of the game. Johnny Sexton. Um, Johnny Sexton on the weekend had a goddamn awful game. Sorry, gonna say it. I know it was his last game, but all he did was take the ball, pivot, and pass it. He made um New Zealand's defensive job so easy because you could predict exactly what he was gonna do every time. And Johnny Sexton went out doing what Johnny Sexton does best, which was whinge and flap his arms around and moan at the referee, instead of getting on and grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and playing like he can play, and he's done it in finals, he did it against us, Saracens, in the Leinster final in 2019. He's done it in big Irish games in the past where it really matters, and you know, Matt's gonna disagree with me here because both Ireland and France performed brilliantly in their quarterfinals in in phases, but when it came down to it, they made mistakes at the crucial moments and did the wrong things at the crucial moments, and I called it choking. Matt will disagree with me, but there is an element these guys are playing at the very highest level of international sport, and I I personally expect them to be able to cope with those pressures, and France and Ireland didn't, I didn't think, at key moments. Go on, Matt. Have you five minutes and then we'll call and then we'll call it a draw.
SPEAKER_02I think I think choking is the extreme end of things. Um I think there is a big differentiation between uh between bottling a match and just losing it. But actually, I do think Ireland um will rue quite a lot from from that game. I think there would there was quite a lot the uh I think they kind of got sucked into uh into the way that New Zealand wanted them to play is probably the uh the best way I can think of putting it. So yeah, on another day I think they might have might have done things a bit differently. And and I do agree with you with Johnny Sexton. I think he he had not one of his better days really. Um but at the same time it's it's the all blacks, and I think the worst thing that could possibly have happened for every other team at the World Cup is they lose their first match against France because you look at it and go, well, they won't make that mistake again, it's New Zealand. Um so yeah, you know, it could have gone either way. Um but yeah, I think I think Ireland could have been better, definitely.
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely. I mean, the the other two points there to make is um mentioned Sam Kane, and I'm gonna mention him um in correlation to Owen Farrell, who we'll talk about a bit later on. But Sam Kane is a player who is disrespected in his own country, ridiculously so, because he is a fine player. His problem is he followed Richie McCorr, and you know, he's very difficult to follow such a legend of the game. The second person I want to mention that game is Wayne Barnes, because Wayne Barnes has taken an awful lot of grip. I mean, there's probably a contract out on Wayne Barnes from from some Dublin lowlife at the moment, but Wayne Barnes refereed that game brilliantly. He did two things. He obviously stole um Josh Van der Fleer's cloak of invisibility, and he um refereed Andrew Porter correctly at scrum time, and this is where I talk about not being able to make the right decisions and do the right things. He was clearing what he expected from scrum time and at the breakdown. And Arlen, because they've got away with it for three, four seasons, just didn't react to that. Just whether they didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't change the way that they were playing to get on side with Wayne Barnes. I do not know. But Wayne Barnes made it clear how he was going to referee that game, and Arlen decided to ignore him. Instead of doing something about it, wave their arms about and complained to him. It was never going to change, and Wayne Barnes refereed that game brilliantly well, Barry.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it it wasn't the smartest player you'll ever see from uh from a from a prop. Um, you you're right. Wayne said, you know, he he told him what he was doing, he told him what he was seeing, and he just carried on painting the same picture and clearly with in in the vague hope that uh that Wayne Barnes had stopped looking at that at what was going on. But yeah, that that that was bizarre. Ireland will be uh not to take anything away from New Zealand, Ireland will be very, very disappointed with that performance um from several players. They they just never really quite got going, and they never really managed to keep New Zealand uh uh at arm's length the way they have done in the past and the way they did with uh with Scotland the week before.
SPEAKER_06Well, I think this is the one fading perhaps of Andy Farrell as coach of Ireland here, and um, this is a conversation I got involved with with Mike Bobbins, the Welsh uh comedian, rugby fan, uh, and a couple of other people who were saying, you know, who would you have at standoff for the Lions? And they say, Oh, you've got to be Johnny Sexton, Johnny Sexton. I say, Johnny Sexton's 38. He's gonna plunge off of a cliff. And the fact is that cliff is coming closer and closer and closer and closer and closer. And I think he plunged off that cliff in that game. He just wasn't at the at the races. And when you're 38 years old, that can happen. It happened to Kieran Reed in the 2019 World Cup, even though he managed to keep going for another couple of years. Alan Wynne Jones plunged off a cliff about five years ago and still managed to get 50 odd caps extra than what he should have done. You know, Sergio Perez, for instance, could walk back into that Italian side without any problems whatsoever, but he won't because he knows that he can't compete at that level anymore. So, you know, it is interesting when you look at Owen Farrell, how many years has Owen Farrell got at England? I think potentially he's got four or five years. He's still only 32, isn't he? Um, but you know, it's looking at him and saying, when's that gonna happen? Saracen's did it with Brad Barrett. We all knew, we said this before, Brad Barrett could probably have given us another season. But they had that conversation and he decided to move on before it became an issue. It's you know, the it's the Muhammad Ali, the boxer who goes on too far syndrome, isn't it, Matt?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is, and everyone different. Um some some players will retire at their peak, others will keep going and going and going. Um, others all keep going until they're 50 and turn out for old Pisporians third 15. Um yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_06Well, let's move on to the French game. And yeah, Matt, perhaps I'm being slightly unfair in saying that France choked uh in a game where there was lots and lots of quality. I think my biggest issue was that in key moments France made bad decisions. Um some players didn't play to their to that very high time, but he just wasn't at the games, I didn't think. And Anton Dupont, you know, he's come back from injury, it's it's a hard thing to do. But yeah, when they needed a clear head and doing the right things, they didn't quite do it. Like they they kicked for goal instead of kicking down, and and you know, with a line out that was going so well. Um, you know, just small things, which means you know, that that affected the way they played, Matt.
SPEAKER_02Some of the mistakes that that crept into France's game over the course of the second half, it was just testament to the way that South Africa were uh were playing, um, the amount of pressure that they were putting them under. I mean, aside from I've never seen a penalty kick go backwards before. That's a that is a a first for me. Um that's probably the biggest biggest howler of of the whole game and potentially the whole World Cup. Um but look that just we're skipping ahead a little bit by me saying this for the England game, but I'm just it was incredible the pace and the quality of particularly the first half of that game. Um both France and South Africa just look streets ahead of most other teams around the world, and it was pretty scary. But yeah, you know, France in the end they they sort of had to chase the game a little bit, but it still could have flipped on one or two decisions that were made. I mean, uh you know, I'm the last one that wants to criticise a referee, but the the final penalty for for South Africa that Pollard kicked from the halfway line personally should have gone the other way. He's about three feet over the top of the ball, and that should have been a France penalty, and potentially it's a six-point swing. But there's probably a million-a-one incidents over the course of the game. No doubt anyone South African is probably picking away at anyway. But yeah, pretty good, I think. But yeah, an absolutely fantastic match. Uh Barry, you probably agree with me there as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's uh a great game. I mean, as good as we thought Ireland, New Zealand was on the Saturday. I mean, we didn't have to wait long for a game that eclipsed even that. I mean, there was there were certainly bits and pieces you could look at. I mean, um the clerk kicked box kicking with 90 seconds to go or whatever it was, and people were saying, Why has he done that? And it's well, the answer was because they were stealing off at every ruck and they realised they weren't going to get away with it forever. Um, but yeah, that there's always bits you can look at. I mean, I we we looked again at today. I saw something on social media about um etzabet and knock on that wasn't given as a knock-on because the referee said he knocked it backwards. Well, the angle I've just seen today, he he didn't. Um, but there we go. So these these things happen, but yeah, I mean what an what an intense match of of uh matchup that was. Great game of rugby to watch, great for a neutral. I mean, uh, if I'd been a South African or a Frenchman, I'd uh probably have been dead by the end of it.
SPEAKER_06Well, absolutely, but I mean, talking about intensity, I think we have to say the intensity England Fiji was up there. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going around saying, well, England, you know, had the easers quarter final, whatever. They didn't. Fiji are a bloody good size, and you know, England's made them look ordinary first half, mainly due to the fact that the game was being controlled at number 10 by Owen Farrell, who is the best number 10, with despite him being boot by his own fans. I say that in inverted comments because, quite frankly, he's the most disrespected bloke. You know, I mentioned Sam Kane. Owen Farrell is a great player, no two ways about it. And when he plays at 10, England tick, and England ticks against Fiji. To the extent that Matt Dawson's written an article this week for the BBC Sport and has gone through it and not managed to say, really sorry, I win and got that one wrong. He had occasions where he had runs, he had occasions where he kicks, and he had occasions where he put Manu Tsuilagi into spice at pace, bam bam, boss. Thank you very much. Joe Marchant's try, Manu Tulagi came from Owen Farrell. And I'm afraid to say we need to start appreciating this blank because uh James Wiles wrote a great article for Planet Rugby about it and say how you're how you're missing because he potentially's got the game that could take England and make South Africa work. Now, I don't think England are going to beat South Africa. I don't think anyone in the world thinks England are gonna beat South Africa, but they've got a puncher's chance, and that's all you could hope for. And you've got to hope that you make South Africa work and that they have to work as hard as they did to beat France, to beat England. And I think the way this team has developed and the way that they are now playing to a specific game plan that you could see is working, they will make South Africa work, if nothing else.
SPEAKER_03They will give South Africa a game and South Africa won't have it all their own way. They'll start as massive favourites on on Saturday, and and rightly so, looking at the uh looking at the performances over the quarterfinals and probably over the group games as well. But yeah, you're right. England have got a chance, they've certainly got more of a chance than anyone who's already got on the plane and gone home. So uh let's get behind them. I don't understand booing players who play for your own country. I mean, we can all quibble about selections and we all have and we all will continue to do for uh until time immemorial. But let's get behind everyone. Let's let's give them the best support that we can from the pub or from the Stonex or from wherever you're watching it on Saturday, and let's hope that uh that something falls our way and we get through to a final again.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say you're looking at it looking at it from our angle as uh as a Saracens podcast and Saracens fans. I mean, it our equivalent is we we do put Marcus Smith down quite a lot because he's the competition for our in Farrell space, and this is a bizarre thing to do, really. I I think he had to be honest, not a great game against Fiji, but he was thrown in at 15 to be absolutely battered, and you know what? He didn't play that well really, but he fronted up massively, and I'm not gonna sit here and boo him. Why would I do that? It's it's such a stupid way of going about that. That's not that's not a proper England fan. Um I think I do think from from what a few people have said that that potentially it was there was actually uh a quite a large contingent of French fans who were also getting involved in in booing certain players, so that that maybe did play a part in a little bit, but yeah, it's it's a bit sad, really.
SPEAKER_06I will say about Marcus Smith, actually, you know, the one thing you want from a player is to to try. And one in attack he tried. Yep. And it didn't come off a lot, but he tried. But more importantly, in defence, he tried. You know, too many times I see Marcus Smith act like a saloon door. He didn't. The one where Semi Radrana tried running over him and did run over him, and Owen Farrell came in like an exorcist missile from the side, but Marcus Smith put his body there and slowed him up, and you know, stopped him getting ahead of steam up. And fair deuce to him, he showed bravery, and I mean he he took a fearful whack. We'll mention Sarison's um players on the get the game. Jamie George did 80 minutes. I mean, he is gonna be absolutely looking forward to a beach holiday very soon. That's number one. Number two, Maratosi obviously been on the phone of George Cruz during the week, I think, because that sacking tactic at the line out was absolutely brilliant, but straight out of George Cruz playbook. And uh I'll be very interested to know whether George Cruz has had any influence upon that. And actually, he would be someone that I would be bringing into the England coaching setup pretty quick if he has had that influence. But the one player we have to mention more than anybody else is Ben Earl, and it's another nail in my Eddie Jones coffin. Eddie Jones told us all that Ben Earl was too small to play international rugby. Well, Ben Earl's value has gone skywards whilst Eddie Jones' has plummeted. And you know, if if there's an epitaph for Eddie Jones' England coach, him not picking Ben Earl is the one because quite frankly, Ben Earl's been one of the players of the tournament.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. I mean he had a storming game uh at the at the weekend. 99 metres, I think, off nine carries. If I think it I think that was the uh the actual stat. And that one at the end, you you just I I just wish he'd managed to put a kick in or something and and collect it and uh and gallop in under the posts. But uh he was so close to uh to going three quarters of the length of the pitch and and dotting it down that that he was he he deserved he deserves all the plaudits he's got. I mean Owen was given the official man of the match at the game, but I'm not quite sure um how they've overlooked Ben for that. But yeah, you could have made a case for uh probably uh four or five of the England England players. Um Mauro was looking. Somewhere back to his best. Courtney Laws had a had a cracking game. You know, they all fronted up. They all they all stood up, and they all deserve immense credit for that. And for they played their best game as they've gone through the tournament. They've got better, they they've slowly got better, uh, I think, and and hopefully they can go on one further start.
SPEAKER_06One South Africa have had a huge match against France. And whether they confront that back up and repeat that is going to be moved. Uh it takes a very special team to be able to play at that level six days later. Number one. Number two, as you say, England have improved, have got better, and have seemingly found the lineup that perhaps Steve Morphitt wanted to do at the start of the tournament. And also, what I think he's also done great is that he's pulled in these older players who've got experience. So we've got leaders across the field. Johnny May is another one I'm going to give special attention to because I thought we had a really good game for England. He's the best England game for a long time. Know what to do in these situations. Well, they can do it as well as they did three, four years ago, which is why I would be tempted to pick Billy Villapoda at eight and we've been able to sever game. One, he gives you a bit of extra grunt, and two, he's got that leadership experience and that and that big game experience. So, you know plenty for both us to to ponder, but I think England would have gone in the right direction. And uh and as I said to you last week, Barry, a semi-final is a success for England, I think.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's a lot of people saying we wouldn't get out of the group, so to have uh got out the group, topped it, and then gone on to win the quarterfinal. Um is is probably uh a reasonable level for us. We do need to step up this weekend, um, but I'm I'm sure everyone will be uh will be fighting for that shirt in training this week, and and those that are selected uh as part of the the 15 or the all the wider 23 will be giving it everything they've got come Saturday evening.
SPEAKER_06Indeed. Well look, there's plenty to look forward to there. Uh next week, I think Matt, I'm gonna ask you to um do all the um the bits and pieces because it's my uh stepdaughter's um wedding next weekend. Uh Germans getting married to Mandy on Saturdays, so I will be missing rugby. Plus, I'm gonna have my feet up after running a 42-minute personal best. I don't know if I mentioned that earlier on, but I did do a 42-minute personal best in the marathon. So um I managed to run the alt marathon in four hours 2746, which uh um, you know, as I say, is is is not world record pace, but it's world record pace of me. Thank you to everybody who supported me on the charity, though. I got I got a fair few um uh donations for you, so thanks for that. But then yeah, we're gonna be back on the 25th of October, and I think, yeah, Matt, and whoever you can drag out of the uh the EFER to talk uh about the semi-finals and and everything next week, then.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we'll uh we'll see what we can put together. And yeah, congratulations on your marathon run. It's uh it's almost as um under the uh length of time of one of your monologues now, so you're nearly there.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, it's it's how I how I work out what I'm gonna say about it when I'm running the and uh pounding the streets. But yeah, thanks Barry, thanks Matt, and indeed thanks to Floyd Steadman for joining us for that fantastic interview in the middle there. I will say all the best, folks, and uh look forward to speaking to you again next week.