S3 E42: Triple Threat (Vicky Fleetwood, Kira Rothwell + Lisa Mather)

Battling the heat and feeling grouchy after defeat to Exeter, Matt and Jo chat to retiring Saracens and England star Vicky Fleetwood about her career and what's next on her plate. Matt is also joined by Lisa Mather and Kira Rothwell to chat through their first season playing for the Mavericks, and how the Saracens ethos is filtering through from rugby to netball under head coach Camilla Buchanan

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Title Music (from Season 4): "Herald" by This Winter Machine

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SPEAKER_10 0:01

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SPEAKER_09 0:32

You're listening to the Fezcast. Listening to the Fez Cast.

SPEAKER_10 0:36

Welcome to the penultimate episode of the Fez Cast this season that seems to have gone on for about 18 months, but we're uh we're almost there. Um it is um a women's heavy show this week, which is good because the men's season has finished. We've forgotten all about that. Um we've got the Mavericks and the Saracens women's season that have just finished as well. So we've got three fantastic guests, Kira Rothwell and Lisa Math from the Mavericks, and Vicki Fleetwood joining us in a bit um from the women's team, having just retired. But first, I've got Joe Peake with me who is here at the women's semi-final at the weekend, has just about calmed down. I think. How are you doing, Joe?

SPEAKER_08 1:13

Yeah, I think um it was it was a long, warm day yesterday. Um not the result that um clearly the girls wanted, but um, you know, I think if they look back on it in the cold light of day, considering where we were before Christmas, um, sitting there in seventh place, I think they'll all be fairly content with their season. Um I I'll get it out of the way now. I think that uh they'll they will be disappointed because they I don't think, in my personal opinion, they were beaten by the better team. Um they were beaten by a 16th player on the on on the on the on the pitch there with just some inconsistent refereeing decisions, and that's that's my personal opinion from from seeing it. Um where we were seeing it. It sounds a little bit like Sour Grapes, but I don't think it is. I think Sarre's played most of the game um on top, um, had a um a few issues where they they perhaps uh got a little bit frustrated, probably with some of the decisions going against them that they didn't feel they should have done. Um and unfortunately um three yellows, um which which probably ruined the game, I think, a little bit for probably everybody. Um uh in in terms of all the fans. I mean there's only over 4,000 fans at Sandy Park yesterday um in in Glory's weather, it was absolutely boiling. Um and I I don't know what it was like on the on the cons um on the screen, but um from my point of view, I think um it was a it was a well played played game and um it's just unfortunately didn't come out on the on the right side of the result, really. But um I think um I know we'll cover it uh over the next couple of weeks with with the women's team. Um uh but I think the squad has done brilliantly um this year and even in the disappointment that still spent all their time with the fans at the end, came over and spoke to everyone, um, thanked everyone for their support, and you know that's all you can ask, and you can see the disappointment on their faces. Um but I think um hopefully they'll they'll look at it this morning and realise that actually the season has been a pretty good season overall. Um uh and I'm fortunate to lose two um extra chiefs twice um in in big games. So um there is next season and I think um I think Alex will bring the girls back in and the rest of the coaching and management staff will bring the girls back in after a well-earned rest. Um although I'm not sure how much international rest some of the girls will get with the the the WXV competition kicking off in the in the autumn. So um yeah, I I I'm really proud of the girls, always will be. Um it was just a disappointing end to their season, I think that they would have liked to just take that that last step forward.

SPEAKER_10 4:14

Absolutely, yeah. I mean there's definitely gonna be a lot of frustrations that come out of it, and we've obviously seen over social media some fair comments and some less fair comments about the game itself, about the refereeing, about the atmosphere, um, lots of different things. But like you say, I think um I think everyone can at least be proud of the season as a whole, but focusing on the game itself. I think you know, we do I hate doing it, but we do have to discuss refereeing all the time, it seems. Um, and I think it's probably important really to split two things out. Um, and first just to talk simply about the three yellow cards that were given. Um, they were three technical letter of the law yellow cards, two deliberate knock-ons. One certainly actually trying to catch and claim the ball, but unfortunately, if you drop it, it's a deliberate knock-on. One could be argued that in the process of making a tackle, an armor's flown out and the ball's hit it, but again, you always see it given. And the third one, not retreating 10 yards from a uh from a quick tap, as clear as you like, it was probably the right thing to do to get a yellow card there, to be honest. So for me, the three yellows had to be given, really, Joe.

SPEAKER_08 5:26

Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree. I mean, I was at the other end of the pitch, um uh, but that's not a disclaimer. I I don't disagree that you know, once certainly the ref had given Hollies for the Dubrick knock-on, he had to give Marley's. Um, and and that was um a little bit of consistency, I suppose, um, in the game. I I think the frustration probably uh for the fans and probably for the team themselves is you know, at the end of the day, the the Premier 15s now is almost becoming weekly internationals with the amount of international standard that we we've got on the pitch there. And personally, I just think they deserve some really high quality referees. We're in semi-final season now, we're into the final. Um, I don't know who is going to be refereeing that final, and I I'm I'm not disrespectful towards any referees that it's a really hard job that they've got there. Um, but I think you know, men's season is finished now. I I just think the girls deserve to have some really good tier one referees, refereeing their games that they would expect at international games because at the end of the day they're largely international players that are playing on the pitch now. Um you know, uh and I think that's where the frustration will come from from the girls is that you know they go away and play all these international games. We've had a World Cup this year, they've had a great six nations, um, and you know, um Pac 4, you know, there's players playing internationals, you know, throughout the year this year, um, and they will have had a different standard of refereeing. And I think the frustration will come um when they're coming back into the Prem 15s, and the standard of refereeing I don't think is just quite deserving of the international and the quality of players that you've got playing out on the pitches week in, week out now.

SPEAKER_10 7:19

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. To be honest, yeah, the three yellow cards I think we can say we're fair enough, but the rest some of the refereeing in the second half, I think um we feel is pretty inconsistent. Um, and you're right, I think the Premier 15s as it's growing and growing, or the women's premiership as it may be next season, maybe um you know the referee needs to develop as quickly as the uh as quickly as the the players are. Um and yeah, hopefully in the next next few years that'll that'll line out. But yeah, there was um there were some bits that we're pretty frustrated with over the course of uh the course of the game there. But has to be said, commentary for uh on the on the Premier 15's website at halftime said that Exeter come flying out the blocks in the second half, that's when they score all their points in those first 15 minutes, that's when they do damage to teams. And that is exactly what happened, unfortunately. We did kind of implode a little bit in the second half and let them into the game. Um that I think will be a big learning curve for the team. But we'll probably come back to this at some point as well, me and Joe, once we've calmed down a little bit, but we'll take a little quick break and then we'll have a chat with Vicky Fleetwood as well.

SPEAKER_07 8:42

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SPEAKER_09 9:32

This is the Fetcast.

SPEAKER_10 9:45

Um in the heat today, I think our brains have uh gone already for myself and I know before we've even started. Welcome to the show, Vicky Fleetwood. How are you doing, Vicky? You alright?

SPEAKER_05 9:57

Yeah, I'm really good, thank you. I would say that I'm enjoying the weather, but it's very different when you're on holiday and having the lovely heat and you can dip in and out of the pool to when you're having to work and all that kind of stuff. So I'm not sure how I'm feeling about it.

SPEAKER_10 10:15

That's fair. That's fair. Now, the the question everyone wants to know, actually, you mentioned that. What is work for you now?

SPEAKER_05 10:22

So um, I've been lucky enough that alongside playing, I was able to kind of uh carry on doing my personal training. So prior to getting my first contract with England, um I was a full-time personal trainer and had to kind of put that to the side to take on my first contract. But with rest days and kind of the times that you're in and out of training, I kind of managed to still have some clients keep some going, keep a little bit of, you know, keep my foot in the door with with doing that. Um, I managed to do my level three coaching last year. So uh it's been mainly Sundays that I've been coaching, but um then weekdays around training, I was able to go and and coach as well. So um they're things that I've I've been doing whilst I was still playing, and now I can now finish playing, I can kind of walk straight into them. So um yeah, later on I'm I'm quite busy, but this morning I've I've had a few hours to myself, which is quite nice.

SPEAKER_08 11:32

And and I I think you've um getting yourself into a little bit of CrossFit now. Did I see you CrossFit in it this weekend?

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Yeah, so um it's been something that I've kind of always enjoyed dabbling with just when it's been like out of season, or we've kind of had a bit of free reign with training. Um, but it's very frustrating being quite bad at kind of CrossFit specific stuff, so like gymnasticky bits or just things that I've never had time to practice. Um, so it's nice being a bit of a beginner, but also quite frustrating.

SPEAKER_08 12:12

Well, we had a previous guest a couple of weeks ago, and Kat was on, and we there was a little rumour that the two of you might be doing a little bit of crossfitting to together in the future. Is that something that you're both looking at doing?

SPEAKER_05 12:24

Yeah, so for honestly, for so long, like we've pushed each other in in fitness, and it's been something that's been on the cards for a long time. We've always said, like, when we retire, we're gonna do something together. We'll, you know, whether it's a challenge, whether it's we'll go and compete in a team at something, but we want to do something together. Um, so yeah, we're just kind of like keeping our eye out for something that we could go and just put our hand to and just see how we go, really. Like, don't even need to have done loads of training to just go and enjoy something. So um, yeah, I think that's something to to look forward to. We definitely need to have a little look into what there is that that maybe we'd be able to do. Because, like I said, the more specific cross-fitting movements, I don't think she'd be any good at either. So, you know, handstand walking and stuff like that isn't probably our forte coming from rugby. But whether it's, you know, on a bike or running or something like that, showing that we've got a bit of an engine. Uh, we both think that we're we're all right in that kind of side of it. So we'd like to give it a go.

SPEAKER_10 13:35

It's amazing sitting here, really, and and thinking that, yeah, Vicki Fleet would sit in there going, yeah, she might be all right at CrossFit. I won't touch it with a barge pole if that's the case.

SPEAKER_08 13:47

Be careful, Kat doesn't have you out on a triathlon, because uh, I think she's done a couple of triathlons in the past as well, hasn't she?

SPEAKER_05 13:54

Yeah, so that again, that's something that um that we spoke about. I wouldn't want to do a triathlon, but we both started swimming when we were younger. So um we've kind of got that base, and then we've talked about going on like bike rides. We both have um road bikes and stuff, and then we both know that we can eat both of us can run. So yeah, um I don't think a triathlon's for me. I think it's just it's a little bit boring for me, just the longevity of just doing I know there's three different parts to it, but still it's quite the monotony of just like one foot in front of the other or one leg in front of the other when you're cycling, one arm in front of the other swimming. Like yeah, I think I'd like to mix it up and do a few different movements, I think. So um I'll maybe leave the triathlon's cat.

SPEAKER_08 14:46

Well, before we move on to uh yesterday's game and get your thoughts on that, just can you cover off your your career and just what's your best memories um from club and country um and tell us a little bit um about what you're gonna miss most about that rugby, and hopefully we'll still see you around, obviously. Um, and I know that clearly you're coaching, I think you're still coaching Robux, is it?

SPEAKER_05 15:12

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Still involved with Robux, and we're actually um we're expanding that as well this coming season, so that's really exciting. Um, so yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure you'll see me around. Um, but yeah, best moment in a Sari shirt's got to be last uh premiership final against Exeter. Um just incredible. Like my dad was there, I had my friends watching, um, and it was just an awesome day. The sun was shining, and we'd worked so hard all season, and I just think like that was the pinnacle. And to go and win that in in such a fashion, like it wasn't like it was actually really tight. We kind of ran away with it in the end, and everyone just put on a real performance, and I think everyone was so proud of how they played. Um, like that's definitely my best moment in in a Sarry shirt for sure. Um, and then I can't mention uh, you know, all the amazing memories that I've I've got in an England shirt, but um, you know, the one that obviously stands out is winning the World Cup in 2014 uh in France. So with the fact that it's you know so close to home, we had so many traveling supporters there. Um, stadium just just full of English support was incredible. Um and yeah, just I was so lucky that it was it was the first one that I went to, and and we managed to come away and win. And there was there was players in that that team that it was their third World Cup, and you know, they'd gone on to finals in the past and and not won it. So to kind of go through that and the big journey with it as well. We we weren't professional at the time, loads of people took sabbaticals from work, and you know, it was all of it that the hard work that had gone into it. To then, I just remember when we were like when we were on the pitch getting our medals, and everyone was just like, I can't believe we've finally done it. I feel like I can actually breathe now, and you can just kind of like like that last kind of the six months, the big push um going towards it, where you're just hoping that you're not going to pick up an injury, you're hoping that you're gonna get selected. Yeah, like I say, everyone was putting rugby first above their careers that you know they'd worked so hard to get into. And there were vets, there were police officers, teachers, and we were going into full-time training um whilst not being professional. So yeah, everything put everyone put like other things on on hold just to go and give everything for that World Cup. So I think it was even more special. Um, because now as a professional athlete, go into something like that, that's just your job. So you go and you do it, but to kind of put everything else aside and to put rugby first and foremost in front of absolutely everything, you know that the sacrifices that everyone else has made to be there. Um, I think that's why it was even more special.

SPEAKER_10 18:26

Fair and um playing on the seven circuit as well, where where does that sort of rank in your uh in your career highlights for you? And and I know it's something you've spoken about a few times before, really, but how did that sort of come about as well? Because there'd be a lot of people on the outside looking in thinking a forward playing sevens. That's um interesting, but probably one of the um the easier forwards to move into sevens, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_05 18:48

Yeah, so I started playing rugby as a as a center. Um, so I don't know how many people know that, but that's where I started coming from an athletics background. And right from then people were saying, like, you should give sevens a go, you should do seven. And I was like, not sure I've kind of got that in my legs. Like I could do the whole kind of like sprint, have a little rest, sprint, have a little rest, but sevens fitness is something different. And when you've played sevens, you know, um, just kind of the lactic takes over, you can't think straight, you've got nothing else to give. Um, and I just I wasn't sure it was really for me, even though other people were like, Oh, I think you should give should give it a go. And um like, I don't even know why, but mids offered me a chance to to go and play in the Euros. So some of the girls would be arrested. Um, they were kind of looking at who might get contracts for the following season, which was the Olympic year. And um he he called me and just asked if I wanted to go and give it a go. Um, having never done any of the, you know, the ones that everyone seems to do, like the Bournemouth and Amsterdam and all the ones that are quite fun. I'd never been able to do any of those because when you were playing 15s, you had to like I don't know if some people were given like permission to go and do it, but it was frowned upon, especially if you were forward, um, to go and and do those like the fun ones. So um went off to this this tournament and having never played sevens, loved it, absolutely loved it, but I did back-to-back tournaments. So like each one weekend came home, went back to work, then went back into a tournament the following weekend. And I just remember crying at the end of it. Um we'd done so well, and everyone's like, Why are you so upset? And I was just like, I've just got nothing, like I've got no energy, I've got nothing. I've given, I've left it all out on the pitch, like just so tired. And it's something that you get used to, but when you haven't done it before, it's such a shock to the system. Um, and then yeah, just ended up loving the training. You get really close to everyone that you're training alongside because when you go away on tour, there's 12 of you, maybe 13 if you take a traveling reserve, but so small that you become such like a tight-knit group of players. Um, and yeah, just being able to kind of travel the world and everything was so much fun. Um the commies has got to be a highlight of uh of my sevens career. So unfortunately didn't get to go to the Olympics, but um two years later went back to sevens. So goodness knows why I flitted between the two, being a front row and then going to sevens, like probably the hardest thing you could do, but hey ho, gave it a shot. Um and yeah, I was lucky enough to to go to the Commonwealth Games and we came away with a bronze medal. So the fact that it was on the Gold Coast, incredible weather, in a packed stadium, you know, like that was just incredible. Um, loved every minute of it.

SPEAKER_08 22:21

Fantastic. Um, and speaking of of stadiums and and busy stadiums, it was a bit busy yesterday at Sandy Park. Um my little segue there into the into the game yesterday. Um Matt and I have had a small um rant um pre-talking to you, but let's get your thoughts on on the semi-final and Sarison's season um and what what your takeaways are for the girls going forward to next year.

SPEAKER_05 22:49

I just thought that that yesterday was such an occasion. Um the fact that uh since Exeter have been in the Prem 15s, Saris haven't beat beaten Exeter at Sandy Park. I've been there for for two of those losses, and um they then went went away there uh in the season and lost to them. So to go there and to to start with such a strong first half, I think was it 14-0 at halftime, something like that. I was thinking they've broken the curse, this is it, like they're gonna beat them because any time other than that that we've played Exeter, I'm pretty sure we've always won, um, which is just bizarre. But the home crowd, like at Exeter, like they just get so behind the girls. And I know that people say that does it really kind of like swing the momentum towards the home team? But like yesterday that that showed that it really did. Um I think Saris were really unfortunate to go down to 13 in the way that they did. Um, you know, when you're panicking, you're defending your triline for long periods of time um to kind of get to two two to the bin in quick succession. Um not ideal, but incredible how Saris rode that out. Like I thought at that moment the ex to were gonna walk away with it, and I think they conceded just one try in in that that time. So um, and actually, once those two had come back on the field, like Saris back to 15, they looked such a dominant force, and I thought there's no way that Saris can actually lose this now. So, yeah, it's one of those, it like it was such an exciting game to watch as a neutral, like that would have been incredible. But for me, I was like my heart was just going the whole time, like heart in my mouth, like I was just hiding behind my my hands, and I was like getting up, like just waltzing around the room, just like, no, I can't watch. Um, it's actually so much tougher watching than it is playing. Um, so yeah, I think because those girls being my friends, and you you want them to go on and do well, like it's even more difficult. So I'm not just a fan, they're my friends too, and I want them to succeed. So um, yeah, just it's it's really sad that that it ended the way that it did. Um like in the last minute or so, exit scoring to go on and win that. But it is also great for the women's game that you know it's not Saris or Quinn's being in the final, which I don't even know how for the last however many years, like one of those teams has been in the final. And um, although obviously I'd love for Saris to have been in it, like it is great for the game. So um it'd be exciting to see what that final goes like.

SPEAKER_10 26:06

I think we will eventually be able to be as philosophical as that myself and joke, having having watched the game. But no, you're exactly right. It's um it's brilliant to see how much the women's game has developed. Obviously, like say Saracens and Quinns have developed quicker than anyone else so far, but that gap has obviously closed, and I think we wish both Gloucester Hartbury and Dex to best of luck in the final. I'm probably a Gloucester fan for a little while, but we'll we'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_04 26:32

Yeah, I've definitely got more friends at Gloucester as well, so I'll be rooting for them.

SPEAKER_08 26:38

That makes sense. Have you got a score prediction for the for the final, Vicky? What do you reckon?

SPEAKER_05 26:44

I haven't really thought about it, but um I I think the fact that it's at King's home, that's got we've just talked about how kind of home fans kind of help bring that like extra momentum to the home team. And I know there's been when it was announced, there was quite a lot on social media about how people were quite frustrated with that appointment. Um, which understandably, like, you know, I think they should have waited until later in the season to see who those top four were and then found a ground. Like I'm pretty sure that fans can can wait and decide, as long as they know when it's gonna be, they can wait and then decide where it is that they're gonna have it so that it is neutral because it is a little bit unfair in my mind, but um I do think that's gonna help them. Uh, and yeah, I wish them, wish them all the luck because I know how hard they've worked and they've been up there, and they've really been kind of, especially last season, they were a great team, but for some reason just didn't cross the finish line. Like for one reason or another, they would, you know, they'd be leading, they'd be leading, then last minute or so they'd they'd lose the game, or lots of injuries to the squad, things like that. Um, just kind of never got that full momentum going. And the fact that they they won the league season shows that they've been the most consistent. So realistically, they they deserve to go on and win it, they've just got to pull it out of the bag on the day.

SPEAKER_08 28:24

Fantastic. Well, I've just got one more question, and you've you've you've nicely led me into it, actually. Um, talking about consistency, Matt and I were discussing about consistency and refereeing. Um, and I just like your thoughts as both a club and international player. Do you notice the difference between the standard of refereeing that you have currently in Prem 15s versus an international level? From from my perspective, I I would I commented that um, you know, uh week in, week out, it's like watching mini internationals now with the quality and caliber of players that you've got we've got in the Premier 15s from you know across the world coming to play in the league. Um, and I'm not quite sure that the level of refereeing has kept up with the standard of players that that is now playing. Do you do you find that yourself or or do you have a different view of it as a as a player?

SPEAKER_05 29:17

Yeah, I totally agree. Um I know that we'd go into certain games in the same way as as with internationals, you kind of look at who you've got for the coming week and you'd see what kind of their trends would be on like what they give penalties for, what it is that they're looking for, what they're hot on, um, and try and play to those things. So if they're really breakdown focus, you've got to be squeaky clean in there. And it's something that in the week leading up to it, you would know that they're kind of the things that that they look at. Um, but yeah, I always found it so difficult that one week you'd have um you'd have someone that would be at that international standard, you'd be like, oh, that like that was refed so perfectly. You know, there's always going to be a few like questionable decisions, but you know, more often than not, you're like, okay, that that was actually really good. And then there'd be others that we'd know that we got, and we were like, oh, that's who we had against XYZ. When you watch it back and you see the decision, and you're like, they gave a forward pass, which wasn't, they gave a high tackle, which wasn't like all these things, and you're like, the inconsistencies is so frustrating. And um definitely yesterday there was quite a few things from my mind that I thought the referee missed, and I'm pretty sure that that Saris will be quite frustrated with that because that is something that you can do nothing about. Like if you say something to the referee, especially if it's not through the captain, like that's only going to look bad. And there's been times when I was playing in a Saracen shirt where some of the girls would take it upon themselves to say something to the referee about a decision, and we'd be marched back, and you're just there fooling like you want to tear your hair out because there's literally nothing you can do. Um, and they're having none of it if you even contest it. So um, it is something that I think they they do need to improve, like say, with the fact that how good the teams are becoming, like they need to be refed at a higher level. Um and yeah, I think there needs to be more refs from the men's game brought across into the women's game, um just for the speed of it, um the way, you know, the way things happen much much quicker. You need to you just need to be on the ball a little bit more. And I mean, it's not something that I would ever want to do. Like being a referee, like they get so much stick, you're always gonna be hated by the team that lose. Um, and you know, hats off to people that that want to go on and do it. But yeah, I do think that um that it needs to improve just to be able to improve the the level of competition even more.

SPEAKER_10 32:19

I've managed to tread very carefully through referee chat, so hopefully that's gone quite well. Um, a couple of bits before we finish up, I think. Now the picking is potentially a difficult question, so sidestep it if you would if you would like to. But obviously, you're announcing your retirement this season. Um I can't imagine your retiring in the manner in which you expected, having uh had a fair fairly serious injury, I was about to say at the start of the season. I think fairly is not the right word at all.

SPEAKER_05 32:49

Yeah, um, so the injury, like obviously, injuries are part and parcel of playing rugby. And had I had this injury 10 years ago or even five years ago, you know, when I was much younger, I wouldn't have even thought twice about it. Because when you're really in and loving rugby, like all you can think about is playing your next game. That so as soon as you get injured, all you ask physio is right, so when can I play? Like you don't care how bad the injury is, all you want to do is play. And that was probably one of the things that made me realize that it's actually time to retire because that wasn't the question that I was asking. And I just didn't have the same motivation um like to re to rehab back, like really super quick. For me, it was like I want to be able to run again, to do all these things again, but in the back of my mind, it wasn't when's that next game? When can I be back for? And I think there's always a point in your career when you know that retirement is right. Um, and whether that's an injury or like something else. And for me, that it just seemed that that came at a time where all the stars just aligned, and I was like, it's time. Like um, Sarry's had to get me back fit um through my contract and stuff, and I'm back being able to do everything, but I never wanted to throw myself back into rugby. Um, like didn't really because of how I got how I got injured, like when you leave it such a long time, I was just I got to the point where I was like, I kind of don't really want to be tackled now. Like that's how I got myself injured. Um, and that's not ever been something with any of my other injuries that I've ever thought of. Like you just throw yourself back in there and you kind of no disregard for you, like no regard for your body. Um so yeah, it was it was just a different one this time. And I think definitely age being one of the reasons, um, you get to a point where you just think like I'm not enjoying it as much as I once was. And the fact that if you're on the sideline more than you're on the pitch, like that's not that enjoyable either. Um, and just knowing that I had other stuff that I could go into and put my energy into um meant that I was really happy with my decision. So um it wasn't something that was decided overnight, it was something that probably over a number of seasons kind of is there, like just in the back of your mind. And then there's always something that you're like, oh no, that'd be really cool to be part of, or you know, there's always something. Um so yeah, it just everything just kind of felt right, and we decided to get a dog. So actually, the day that I got injured, um we were up in sale, and I'd actually decided um that we were we were gonna get a puppy, and it was the day that I was going to see her. So I um she she was in Liverpool, and obviously we live in London. My dad had driven me up to Sale, came to watch, and um I refused to get in the ambulance. My dad took me to go and and see my little puppy. She was six weeks old and she was like this big. And um I went via seeing her before my dad took me to the hospital. I was like, no, I'm not going in the ambulance. I need to go see the puppy. So um, there's just lots of things, and then that couldn't have come at a better time because when you get a puppy, like she can't go out, she couldn't go out for four weeks. So there's me on crutches, and I was just like being able to have cuddles all the time with the puppy, um, trying to do little training bits with her inside, but she wasn't allowed out, so it's not like I had to walk her. So being on crutches didn't make too much of a difference, and yeah, there were just loads of things that it just almost just everything came at once and just seemed the right time. So um, we were just navigating how to to announce it and what to do with all that. So, like Alex and Chippy, Lewis, all of them were just like all the coaches were just so understanding and really supportive of it, and they just wanted what was best for me, and they wanted to get me back to full health, and then we're like, we'll see how we can go after that. So that's how it all came about, and yeah, I'm really, really pleased with my decision, and I don't feel like I'm I'm missing out on stuff. Like watching yesterday, it was nice to watch it, but I didn't really want to be out there, so like that that makes you know that yeah, it was it was the right decision, and now I can can watch as a fan.

SPEAKER_08 37:57

Well, from the fans, I think um I'll speak for probably everyone by saying uh it's been a pleasure watching you play, and we look forward to seeing what you're gonna do uh in the future. We'll certainly be keeping an eye on your social media and watching you running around like a lunatic, including with Willow, hopefully. Um I think he's got her own Instagram account now, has she? Yeah, she has.

SPEAKER_05 38:18

I've I've been a bit a bit lax with posting on it um recently, but um I'm sure when the weather's when it's not quite as hot, I'm sure when we're back out, there'll be something of her running around or going on adventures over the summer, whatever it is. So um, yeah, I'll be back posting on it a little bit more regularly, I think.

SPEAKER_08 38:42

Fantastic. It's been really, really lovely speaking to you, Vicky. Um, and uh we look forward to seeing what you're gonna do in the future. Thanks very much for for coming on to the first cast.

SPEAKER_05 38:52

Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_10 39:02

Hi, Alex Osterberry here, director of rugby for Saracens Women. You're listening to the Saracens Festcast.

SPEAKER_09 39:08

This is the Festcast.

SPEAKER_10 39:13

A slight technical hitch meant we had to come to a bit of an abrupt stop there, but um thank you very much to uh to Vicki Fleet for joining us um on the show this week. Really great to talk to her and wish her all the best in retirement and for the 150 things that she's going to be doing next. Um, just before we go into the next part of the show, we don't normally do birthday shout-outs on the FezCast, but we do feel like we have to this time round because women's super fan Colin Garrett is his 60th birthday this week, and uh yeah, recently voted the Saracens women's supporter of the season and richly deserved 60th birthday. Happy birthday, Colin. Um, but yeah. Um next up I did have a uh chat with Kira Rothlow and Lisa Mather of Saracens Mavericks. Um have a listen to this. It's very nice to hear uh how they're gelling into the Saracens family and uh and how pleased they are with how the season's gone under new head coach Camilla Buchanan. So hope you enjoy this. Yeah, so on the show this week we've got uh another two players from Saracens Mavericks um to put me through my paces again on uh my slowly developing knowledge of uh of netball. I've been to one more game since the last time we had uh a Mavericks feature on the show. So we'll see if um my knowledge has got any better. But um welcome to the show first. Um Kira Rothwell, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Hi, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_10 40:39

No problem at all. And Lisa Maffer as well. Hi, Lisa.

SPEAKER_06 40:43

Hello, Kiara.

SPEAKER_10 40:45

Lovely stuff. So Lisa has just given the game away and let us know that she's from New Zealand. So that was actually going to be one of my first questions. Um, both of you um relatively new to to Saracens Mavericks, your first season of the club. But Lisa, you've had uh a bit further to travel coming over from um from New Zealand. So two questions, really. One, what's it been like the sort of change of culture? And although it's a nice sunny day for you now, it's probably getting used to most of the weather, really. But um, and the other one as well, obviously playing Netball in in New Zealand, where um probably fair to say more of an established um professional game, I guess. Um has there been an adjustment both ways, or um something you fitted into fairly quickly?

SPEAKER_06 41:28

Yeah, for sure. It was always um going to be quite the challenge, and I always knew that, but I was definitely um up for it, and I'm definitely one to believe that nothing good comes easy. So um it was a bit of a risk, and you know, I really threw myself into something um I had no expectations. I didn't actually know a single one of my teammates coming over. So, not only coming to a new country where, yes, you are correct, the winter is um pretty grim over here and was quite rough, um, especially for for a girl like me from a small rural town where the temperatures don't get too low in the winter. Um, so that in itself is an adjustment, and then again, um adding to that the the netball and being a part of high performance um is a challenge in itself, and also then on top of that, adding to a new different style of uh netball and how they play, learning about what Mavericks was about, not only wanting to stay authentic in who I am, my strengths of what I bring as a player and as a teammate, but also having to fit into their culture, what they wanted to be about, and buy into the vision for the season. Um, so yeah, I'd say I've had to be very open-minded and and there has had to be like a lot of room for to adapt. Um, and there's definitely been challenges with that, but I honestly think that I've only gained from it as a player and a person. Um, and I'm really glad that I kind of took took the leap to come over and get out of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_10 43:08

Really glad to hear that. I'm glad it sounds all positive there. I'm sure you wouldn't be sitting there and complaining. That's probably not the thing to do. But um, Kira.

SPEAKER_06 43:16

There's definitely highs and lows.

SPEAKER_10 43:18

Yes, of course. Um Kira, less far to you for you for you to go, obviously, from from London Pulse to uh to Saracens and Mavericks, but probably uh a similar sort of adjustment as well in in styles and things being a young player yourself too. Um has there been have you seen much difference in between uh between the changes between the two squads or um hit the ground running pretty much straight away?

SPEAKER_02 43:43

I think I was luckier than Lisa in that. I already knew a few of the girls from age group, from playing around with them at England and stuff. You get to know people in the pathway. Um and I feel like I had maybe seen what Mals were putting out on court in previous. seasons seeing where they'd done well but where they were like where their weak points were and I know there was a big idea of creating a culture shift and all that sort of stuff and that was one of the biggest selling points in me wanting to come in that um they had this new vision for the club obviously aligning with the rugby um and like I loved all the girls and I could see them willing to make this shift they came off the back of a hard year last year um and so yeah I've definitely I've just loved it like I also came off a hard year last year and so having the support of the girls being able to get out on court getting more court time has been amazing this is probably a a bit of an unfair question to you really but obviously the Maverick season has finished finishing fifth in the league do you look at the table and see London Pulse finishing first and potentially playing in a final as um any sort of any tiny amount that maybe regrets moving or just happy with um with how it's gone? No regrets zero percent regrets like all the girls there are my like some of my best friends so I'm so happy that they've finally got the fruits of I know they've been working hard for five years now I think the club's been around and we got our small bit of satisfaction feeling this week but um no no regrets this is the happiest I've been playing netball and obviously I want to be number one but I also want to be enjoying it.

SPEAKER_06 45:32

That's probably one of the harshest questions I've ever actually asked so I do apologize that's all right like I said to good to get one over on on them at the end of the season there when uh yeah we can ract a little bit and secure fifth place as well which is good um question to Lisa actually I mean so we spoke to Sasha Corbyn at the start of the season we we spoke to about an awful lot of things one of which was the sort of targets and things for the season which we'll get on to but Lisa how much of an influence has has Sasha been this season in what's what's her last season on court does she sort of have a presence around the squad that yeah absolutely sorry yeah no absolutely um I guess that kind of sums it up like whenever I get asked questions about Sasha I I really try to articulate what I'm about to say because I generally like don't have enough good words to describe that woman like she really is like the absolute like epitome of positivity role model like strong woman um vibes she just she really is the full package and I think she brings so much inspiration to our team like when she's talking like everyone buys into what she says and um her flair on court her fun spirit is just so infectious to be around and I really do struggle finding words to describe her and her kind of impact but at the same time I guess for me like I'm just so grateful that I was able to have that time with her and especially it being her last year like she has so many memories from the court but I'm just so glad that I timed it in a way to be in a team with her to see how she leads and to have experienced that because she's definitely someone that I know it's a short amount of time but I do feel like I've known her for a lot longer and I think that's a testament to who she is and I would I in my future you know hope to take so many things from her that I've learnt this year. Um even just to be a good person off the court like it's not just the on court stuff that I think you know we value about her it's everything.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Similar sort of thing for you Kira yeah I think growing up in the UK as well Sasha and Kaden her sister have always been massive role models like they were in the England squad they were always doing acrobatics when they won games like they were amazing and I remember one I've got a signed Sasha Corbyn ball from about uh a long time ago and um one of my first with my junior club we went on a um we were really lucky to go on a trip to St. Vincent in the Caribbean as like a one week tour and the guest special coach was Sasha Corbin. Um so I've got memories of being coached by her when I was about 14 to now being on the same team as her and yeah as Lisa says she's just inspirational.

SPEAKER_10 48:40

Yeah I mean with with Maverick sort of coming into the Saracens fold it brought to my attention a lot more some of the bigger characters in the squad and obviously Sasha stood out perfectly and the one game I was at this season was um was against team Bath her last last home game and obviously with Kadim playing against her you could just see the the amount of love the room had for her really so it was it was lovely. But it's enough about Sasha um the the squad as a whole um actually well I suppose this is a little bit about Sasha because she as as I mentioned she said that there weren't really any major targets for this season it was just continuous improvement on court so I'll probably ask you this as well Kira are you happy with how the season's gone in that respect just improving every every week and and how does it sort of look going into next season as well?

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Yeah I don't think you can fault the improvements that we've made week on week we were a relatively new group like we had some old ones but a lot of new players coming in and I think Cam set sat us down at the beginning like the week before the season and put a list of all the teams and was like these are our targets these are our we're gonna try and beat them but it will be harder being realistic and if we look back we beat every single one of those teams we set out to at least once and we even managed to take London Pulse at the end which if we had well we beat we lost to them by 25 goals in round one so that speaks for itself um I think there's obviously a few games that we want to not remember um but it is testament to the whole group the leaders that we have that we didn't let that like define the rest of the season and I say the second half of our season we probably got some better results and building on the first half.

SPEAKER_10 50:31

So yeah I there's a lot more sorry you asked about next half of the season sorry next year um I think we have built some really strong foundation and are starting to develop the brand of Saracens that we want to see um especially these last few weeks we've been showing that on court so we've only got to build on that now that's that's that's definitely fair and Lisa I guess it's probably a similar answer from you as well but has that um the fact that it is a sort of season where there has been a lot of change um Camilla coming in his coach and a lot of new players has that sort of helped you as a new player where it is a bit of a clean slate for for a lot of the girls or um or has it sort of made it harder when you're coming into a a team that's all all trying to gel together at the same time?

SPEAKER_06 51:20

Yeah I I feel a bit mixed on answering that one because at the same time um because it is new you know you can I guess learning and learning on the go means you know you are exposed to making mistakes and and you've got to be able to accept that as part of the process. So even though we wanted to implement high standards of ourselves and excellence we knew that because there was so much learning to be had that we had to also have a little bit of room for accepting things to not always go to plan. But I guess then on the flip side of that in high performance especially when you are giving it your and you're putting your whole heart into something and we turn up every day like we don't turn up to lose and we don't turn up to lose by those margins and we'd be lying to say that it didn't hurt each and every time and there were times where we we were really embarrassed with it. So it's kind of yeah it's a really hard one to balance because as athletes you don't like losing and you don't like not getting results and and you don't like it not going to plan and you always have the intention to do that.

SPEAKER_10 52:26

But I guess because we were a new group um and there were so many new connections that we had to kind of explore there was also that element of being you know okay with it every now and then so I think that's been probably the biggest challenge is finding that balance of what we're allowing and what's okay to be okay that's learning and actually when we've had to you know expect more of ourselves as individuals as a group and as like you know a squad as a whole well my co-host on this show Jez who unfortunately isn't with us today one of his favourite sayings is that you learn far more from matches you lose than matches you win so there's definitely uh definitely bits you can take from that but um being you know coming away from the team slightly on a personal note Lisa are you happy with how your season went personally is um is there is there anything that you maybe wish had gone better for yourself or uh or tough one again I've got to ask it.

SPEAKER_06 53:32

Yeah I guess I by throwing myself into something um so new um there was always going to be challenges and I'd be fully lying to say it all went to plan it was all seamless like there's um certain challenges um and emotions that I have experienced obviously not only being on the other side of the world away from my comfort zones and my family and my support that I forever knew um but then there was also highs where you know I've really um surprised myself I've been proud of myself for what I have been able to do and um like even um I mean with Kara being on the podcast I have to mention like them even taking me into their home um you know like even though I've come over for Nepal as a player there's so much as a person I've been able to achieve and I mean I didn't know Kara a year ago but I feel like I've known her for a lifetime and I'm sure you know it's more like family that I feel like I've created and I think that's not only a testament to who I am as a person but the people that are around Saracen. So as a player performance wise I mean I feel like every player at this level is never fully satisfied and I'm fully I'm definitely not satisfied with the season and I'll pinpoint like things here and there and you know I do believe I can still bring a lot more consistency to my game particularly in the center role um but I'm also so grateful for all the gains that I have been able to achieve and I think even though I want to always strive for better it's good to sometimes as well celebrate the small wins and the stuff that isn't necessarily um shown on the court. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Kieran for yourself just just personal goals and things happy with uh with how things have gone yeah definitely I mean a massive one for me in the move was a move to get court time and I've been so grateful to get that um like this is some of the most consistent well it is the most consistent game time I've ever I've ever had and with that came like new pressures of having to be consistent on court and I think every game I've learnt a lot and I haven't necessarily done my job every time especially against some of the top teams but the second half of the season and the last few games in particular I've just grown in confidence myself that I can do that. It's also come with lows in that this was some of the as I said before some of the happiest I was playing netball and I was loving my team but I've also been in the England program for since I was about 15 and this was the first year that I didn't make it back into that. Um which reflecting on it now that's always my dream and to get into the Roses program is my dream but it's given me a chance to think about other things that I want to do like I'm thinking about potentially going back to medical school or going to uni again and developing the other side of my career. I was actually at an international sport women's day thing yesterday and so many of them were emphasizing the dual career and the the skills that it gives you and that was just inspiring me to pursue that but also how that helps my sport. So overall I'm really happy but there is so much more that I want to do with my performance.

SPEAKER_10 56:51

Absolutely sure it's absolutely fair I mean it is something that we we discuss quite a lot on the show especially when we're talking both about women's rugby and and netball as well is the fact that very few of you are full time and able to throw yourself a hundred percent in there's there is a career that has to come along with it and it's super tough to to stay at that level of high performance when you've got the rest of your life to deal with as well so fair fair play to all of you I struggle with my one job so that will uh that'll do but um Lisa mentions that uh she she's been living living with you this has got to be the question now how has that been for the two of you as there has there been any arguments at all no I mean I it's been like almost a blessing in disguise for me because stop smiling at me like that. No I love it it's like having it's like living at uni and having your best friend living with you um going through all the highs and lows with each other um and it's also great because when I don't want to talk about netball with my family Lisa can take on that role and then if I if Lisa doesn't want to I can do it so we split the load unfair play fair but I'm gonna ask you another question as well Kira because I it'd be unfair to ask Lisa I did did see that that Lisa won one of the end of season awards the Maggie Jackson Award which I believe is is for sort of above and beyond elements of not just on the netball court and things so what what has Lisa actually done to win that award in your eyes I think I mean one of the key things of that award is as you say going above and beyond and Lisa is always the first to do extra sprints before training like be there first so that she can well both of us have endless strapping but I think I've never met someone with more than me and Lisa might have that um but then other things like so much has gone on behind the scenes for her like with her family being away from home she's never let that affect how she comes to training always with a smile on her face.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

I don't think I say any of this enough to you Lisa but I think like amazing in it and and that award is very deserved.

SPEAKER_06 59:09

We'll let you speak now Lisa because it's I'm aware I'm sitting in the middle of a moment now so sorry I know I'm like trying to avoid eye contact on my I'm gonna get awkward now I'm blushing no thoroughly well deserved oh thank you no those were very kind words from you Kara it's weird because we're usually in the same space so we're doing this from two different locations and so it's a bit like I'm just looking away into this space I will I will bring it back to something slightly more serious in that case but we you know we we've mentioned it a couple of times the um the link up um with the Saracens group having this sort of overall umbrella and bringing Mavericks into the fold alongside the uh alongside the rugby teams it it wasn't unique to start with there was wasps involved as well but obviously uh things fell by the wayside for them so yeah saracens now in a bit of a unique position having having this um sort of dual code um organization of of rugby and and netball and a lot of um a lot of the chat certainly from from the top of um the saracens board and and key members in management is trying to bring that sort of cohesion between the between the two and and the same ethos across the two teams so for you guys that have come into it this first first season for yourselves but the partnership's been going on for a couple of years have you sort of seen that developing a little bit um probably question to Lisa to start with is is that something that you've seen evolve over the over the course of the last year yeah absolutely and I think you know as a group um we are so grateful for that support and the fact that they want us a part of their brand because I mean we all know Saracen's is a winning brand so I mean we kind of make jokes every now and then like I think I even spoke I went to a um business partners event and I don't know if it's my key we slang or not but I didn't get too many laughs but I kind of explained to us as like the poor sisters of the group um but like we're so grateful to be you know a part of it and the fact that they're willing to like support us and um really you know get in behind our sport as well and I think for us the idea of being a part of something bigger than just ourselves is one motivating but also really inspiring to kind of implement their brand reputation and their high standards and why they win. So we want to learn okay well Saracens you know they're a winning organization how can we implement those same things and same strategies and values and I think the more we align that the the only the only like more benefit and gains is um Saracen's Mavericks we can get and you know um I've definitely noticed over this last season you know we see you guys at games from literally the CEO to some of the players and other staff um obviously our physio and SNC are actually employed and have strong links with the Saracens rugby so they kind of cross over um but it's actually been really nice and I think for them to bring their professionalism from their rugby experience has been so great for us and we're so so grateful that you know Saracens have provided that for us because it has brought that element of professionalism when obviously the re um it's you know um the reality sorry finding my words the reality is um Netball's kind of in a growth transition particularly in the Netbull Super League here in the UK so anything that adds extra value we're just so um over the move to be a part of.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

Yeah I think the only thing I would add is like on a more personal level the being linked to the rugby club means that they have all their full-time staff in which means we get full-time physio full-time SNC full-time psychology if we need it which in previous clubs when it's a standalone netball club you just employ for example a physio for your Tuesday and Thursday night training session and you don't have access to them the rest of the week I mean I've already been to A Lish twice this week to recover from Monday night and having having um like access like that is something I've never had in Super League netball and it's amazing.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:41

That's absolutely sad. I mean from from what you've both said there it does does make it almost sound a little bit of a one one way street but I think there's actually a lot that Saracens as a whole can learn from having Mavericks in as a as a partnership. I mean obviously I'm sitting looking at it from the outside but watching a game of netball I'm exhausted just just watching it so I think there's definitely some S and C work that that some rugby players could learn from watching people shutting up and down a court because it it's um yeah first thing I learned about netball was that it's probably one of the fastest paced sports out there so I reckon your S and C guys are learning just as much as uh as you are there. One final question um and I'm gonna start with with you Kira.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

Camilla Buchanan as a head coach first season that she's done it's been working um well she's been at Mavericks for quite a while as a as a player as a coach and now now in a top role and I'm sure you're not gonna say anything negative about her if I ask you here on the show but what um what sort of impact has has Camilla had on on your game and um what's her what's her style as a coach as well I mean it's very far from negative the complete opposite I think firstly she's just such a beautiful person like I've again grown up watching her and seen what she did on court and she also coached my younger sister for a little bit so I had heard amazing things about her um but her style I guess is she's very thoughtful about how she goes about everything. So for example when we have a game that we've lost that we shouldn't have lost by 20 goals occasionally she'll go in on us straight away more likely at halftime she'll do that to get us riled up and realise that we need to step up but after the game she takes her time she's very much thinks about what she wants to say before she says it because she doesn't want to look back and regret sort of um which I respect so much from her I I think she does that more than any coach I've had and equally it's her first year in a head coach role which I mean you you wouldn't know it from the outside. I think she's done amazingly but um every time we have

SPEAKER_06 1:06:00

a question like she didn't play as a shooter so if I'm asking her specific tactical stuff about being a shooter she is so good at going away finding video like learning on the job so that she can answer our questions um yeah does it work for you as well Lisa in enjoyed uh enjoyed the season under Camilla Yeah for sure I guess um taking the leap uh the value of trust was really big for me so you know when she was um telling me her vision and kind of her values and how she wanted to go about her season I felt like I had to one trust that and also buy into it and everything that she said it really resonated with me and I I am a big believer that like good people make good athletes as well and she is just a good person and you can see she's genuine and she's authentic in how she goes about her job and you know I have a lot of respect for that woman because she also juggles like three kids and and you wouldn't know because the way she comes into training and throws herself at um her job is just so inspiring and um yeah you wouldn't know what's happening at home and how she's juggling it all but when she comes in she's enthusiastic she's always open minded to not only being better herself but how she can give us different ways to look at things to improve as not only individuals but you know in combinations but I think the biggest thing for me has just been her um transparency and openness in how she's communicated and I think that's one of her biggest strengths um is the way she can communicate with us as players and as staff and her genuine care. You can tell you can tell when someone's faking it but she doesn't fake it you can feel the love when she speaks and she does it to our volunteers. One of my highlights which made me respect her so much is before every home game she started a new thing where she would bring all the volunteers on court um before we would go into the changing room and start our game prep so obviously there's so much work behind the scenes and volunteers that give up so much of their time for nothing. And she involves them in the day and makes them feel special and acknowledges them. She acknowledges the DJ she even acknowledged the cleaner at um Hertfordshire sports village because she does such an amazing job of keeping our changing room um so clean and you know she really does try show her appreciation um and I think yeah that as players I mean we're proud to have her as a coach and um that's probably a pretty good place to finish because the you know the whole concept of the Saracens family is thrown around by us all the time and it you know it can seem like empty words I guess but I think you've just proved that actually it is just this one big big unit really and that's that's how it works.

SPEAKER_10 1:09:01

So on a similar vein Lisa Kira really appreciate you joining us on the on the show today it's lovely to talk to you. Thank you for being gentle with me and not being too technical about what's been going on I will learn the game eventually but both of you really appreciate your time and hopefully we'll uh we'll speak to you again soon thanks for having us I'm Alex Langton and I'm a proud Looseheads Ambassador I'm Sydney Gregson and I'm a looseheads ambassador we're a rugby mental health committee working to tackle the stigma you can find us at Looseheads on all social media channels or at looseheads.co.uk The loosehead's mission is to place a mental health lead at every rugby club get in touch now to find out more.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:58

Take care and enjoy the rest of the podcast enjoy the rest of the pod of two interviews with three great guests um it's been a pretty good end to the season I think um fantastic to hear from uh from Vicky Fleetwood about about her career and and Sarason this year and um it's it's good to hear that there's um sort of no regrets about retiring in the way that she has and from um from Kira Rothbell and Lisa Mathra as well two young players joining the Mavericks this year and and really good to hear about how they're really a close knit part of the Saracens family and that sort of ethos that we've seen across both rugby teams is definitely filtered into the into the Mavericks and hopefully some success to come from from them as well hey Joe exactly you know um I think Mavericks had a good win didn't they um against London Pulse last game of the season so absolutely nice way for them to end their season as well so um I think uh overall the Sarris family um will be pretty pretty happy with uh their lot this season um a men's championship a women's semi-final and um the Mavs doing doing pretty well themselves and um I I could I couldn't tell you the the the um Harrison's amateur um uh league result but um I think they've had a pretty decent season as well so we'll cover them um but but no all in all I think um there's lots to look forward to and uh we'll look to see what the squads look like in uh in the coming year um and and go from there and with uh with a season uh um cracked at Stone Egg with um with the newstand well and truly up and running um in full for the uh 23-24 years.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:57

Absolutely yeah there's there's plenty to look forward to with uh with all three teams in that in that professional side of the uh the family and and everything else as well we'll look at Amp Till we'll look at Saracen's amateurs there'll be all sorts going on but we have got one more show this season um we'll wait and see if we uh if we get a guest on it we may do we might not but the the last thing that we do need to do as we did for the uh for the men's rugby team is to uh is to pick a a women's team of the year and a couple of different awards so myself and Joe are thinking about that already um there are the polls have uh have been happening on social media in fact they'll pretty much be done by the time uh by the time people are listening to this show but I think I don't know about you Joe I've I've managed to narrow it down to about 45 players rather than uh rather than 60 um got to get that down to 15 so it's gonna be tough isn't it it is gonna be it is going to be a really really tough to um to pick a women's team of the year we've had some some brilliant additions newcomers um this year um I I think yesterday particularly at the game I thought Sarah McKenna was outstanding and I think she's been absolutely brilliant uh the back end of this season um and if I'm just going to mention a few um Sharifa Casolo um and this is not to sway anybody's votes by the way but Sharifa I think has been brilliant Grace Moore Lou McMillan um all great additions to to the team um plus we've seen um you know a number of our players make debuts for their countries this year score tries for their countries this year um and you know I think there's a lot to be thankful for from the fans' point of view because um Alex must be loving the fact that he's he could probably field two Saraton's uh teams full of um high quality players and and both of them um feature pretty high up in the in the Premier 15s table so um yeah trying to narrow that down to 15 players um uh is gonna be a job and a half mate um but uh uh we'll we'll have a look at it for sure. Yeah we've got to give ourselves a week to think about that aren't we but for now yeah Joe thank you very much thank you to all our guests and thank you to all of you for listening as well we'll be back next week with the final Fez cast of the year before we go off and have a bit of a summer holiday.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:16

Cheers everyone this is the Fezcast