Fezcast - The Saracens Supporters Podcast
The Fezcast is the best (only) Saracens fans podcast! Every week we bring you news, reviews, and interviews from around the Saracens Family, covering the men's and women's rugby teams, the Saracens Foundation and our partner clubs. The Fezcast is brought to you by Saracens fans, for Saracens fans - get in touch with us via Twitter, Instagram, YouTube or text the show via the show description in Apple Podcasts and Spotify. [Disclaimer: The Fezcast is brought to you in association with the Saracens Supporters Association and is not an official product of Saracens Ltd. Views are our own.]
Fezcast - The Saracens Supporters Podcast
S3 E40: Norman Collier's Cheesy Grin
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In the immediate aftermath 3 very hungover Fezcaster's, Barry, Jon and Jez, are joined by Matt who was still on the lash (and recording on his mobile phone from the mean streets of Hertfordshire) to react to the massive and brilliant win in the Gallagher Premiership final as Saracen's again became the Champions of England!
In part 2 Jez is joined by Jo as they chat to retiring club legend Kat Evans about her time, woman and girl, in the Saracen's set up, the highlights of her career and what is next in her journey.
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[Disclaimer: The Fezcast is brought to you on behalf of the Saracens Supporters Association and is not an official product of Saracens Ltd]
Title Music (from Season 4): "Herald" by This Winter Machine
The following podcast is brought to you on behalf of the Starrison Supporters Association and is not an official product of Staritons Limited. Content provided voluntarily by our guests and contributors are of their own opinion, which may change over time and should not be taken as fact, particularly as the podcast hosts are regularly talking drivel. Anyway, if you've got some drivel of your own you'd like to share, you can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Fezcast underscore SSA. You can search Facebook for the Fezcast, or you can email Fezcast.com.
SPEAKER_10You're listening to the Fezcast.
SPEAKER_03This is a public service announcement on behalf of the Fezcast. I'd like to make two points before we start the show. Number one, thank you to everybody who supported the Fezcast over the season, but in particular during finals week, where we had nearly 900 downloads of the shows. Your support means a huge amount to us all. Secondly, the part you're gonna hear part one was recorded on Sunday morning in the immediate aftermath of our win at Twickenham. As a result, three of the presenters are in differing stages of hangovers, and the fourth, Matt, was still on the lash on a stagdo, somewhere on the mean streets of Hertfordshire, which does mean he was recorded on his mobile phone, which does also mean at some points he will sound a little bit like Norman Collier. Just to paraphrase though, basically what he was saying is champions, Faz is a god, Mark McCall is a genius, Theo Dan, we won. There you go. Anyway, on with the rest of the pod.
SPEAKER_01You're listening to the Fedcast, which is proudly sponsored by the Starriston Supporters Association. And I'm Alison Davis, one of the SSA committee. For £10 annual subscription, the SSA provides our members with monthly newsletters, virtual and in-person player events, away match ticket allocations, and we organise pre-match gatherings at away matches. We sponsor men's and women's players and we support the Saracens Foundation Crack Club on behalf of our members. On top of all that, every year we have a seasonal SSA badge, which is exclusive to members. Where else can you get that much value for a tenor? Join now at membermojo.co.uk forward slash SSA. Or come and see us on match day in the OA Dist at the Stonex.
SPEAKER_11This is the Fezcast.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to the uh the Smiley Winners Cheesy Grin face edition of the Fezcast recording part one um on Sunday morning because we do have a part two uh where we're gonna be speaking at Kat Evans and and talking about the women's game from Sunday. But this is Sunday morning. A few hungover faces, a few still pissed faces, I think, to be perfectly honest with you. But what a great day out yesterday. Barry, Matt, John. Thank you for joining us in your various states of post-celebratory uh whateverness. But what a great day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was uh it it was it was a good day out in Trickingham. Um the the the sun was shining, the the the game was a lot better than last last year's. Um the sale fans were were brilliant, the ones that I met anyway. Um, and it was good to see so many other neutral fans there, if you like, as well. Um, shame it wasn't a little bit higher attendance, but uh yeah, uh a great day out and the right result, I think.
SPEAKER_03Well, absolutely, and I'll say this to you, John. I mean, I met a few neutral fans there, and yeah, I mean we've seen all over um over the uh the internet, the normal keyboard, the keyboard warriors coming out and giving their two penneth, but they are not indicative of real rugby. And I mean, I spoke to Exeter Chiefs fans, I spoke to Leicester Tigers fans. We had a laugh and a joke asking them whether they had a Saracen shirt underneath known for well, they didn't, and yeah, I mean, the first thing I'm gonna say, John, and I'm sure you'll agree with me. One, I can understand people not wanting Saracens to win, that's not a problem. I don't have any issue with that whatsoever, and I don't think the club does either. But it's the people who looked at that game and are still saying it was a rubbish game, whatever. That was a brilliant game of rugby. I don't care. Both sides put on a show, and yeah, okay, there were 20,000 empty seats there, but the 60,000 of us in there gave it an atmosphere, and it was worthy of a final.
SPEAKER_12It was, yeah. It was such a it well, you think there were 60 points in the game for a start, so that proves that it weren't boring, at least. I mean, for for a neutral, it probably would have been a bit more enjoyable in patches than it was for us, perhaps. But I'm just glad it's done and it went our way. But yeah, as far as the neutrals go, yeah, I spoke to a few, and you know, they weren't backwards and coming forwards, to be quite honest. A lot of them didn't want Saracens to win, but I think that's because they they can't say anything now. We've we've we've we served our our time in the championship, we've come back and we've and we've done it, and there's nothing no one can say this time, and that's probably one of the most pleasing elements of it all for me, actually, to be quite honest.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely, absolutely. But before we get into the game, I've got a bone to pick with Matt. Sorry, mate. I don't I know Matt's walking down the street somewhere in Hertfordshire on a stag day, but the bone to pick here is you put all the um the polls out and everything, and the golden moment, you put out all these different golden moments without realising that Fio Dan, after my little pep talk to him, which I think I'm taking a bit of credit actually for that, but that 50-22 uh kick from uh Theo, that's my golden moment of the season. So whatever wins it, sorry, it's been usurped by that one, Matt.
SPEAKER_09Well, this is the benefit of uh of us doing that, doing the show about the team of year and all the awards after the final, whereas we've asked everyone else before it, we can come up with something else, and um yeah, maybe I've done all those polls and um and no one's say is actually gonna have any credit apart from us. So we're in charge, aren't we?
SPEAKER_03Well, absolutely, that's that's uh that's the benefit of doing it. We stuck our hands up to do this sort of thing and we did it. But right, let's start with the O Dan, shall we? Um, I mean I think number one, okay. I'm gonna say this now. There's been a bit of people saying that there was a few mistakes being made, particularly first half, first 20 minutes, maybe. I'm gonna say this straight off. Both teams played rugby at an intensity and a level that I think only Lara Shell in Northern Hemisphere rugby could have coped with yesterday. If we were playing anybody else, and it could have been Leicester, it could have been Leinster, it could have been Racin, whoever, we would have still won that game because sale pushed us to a level where we played as good as we did. Number one. Number two, Theodan came on after what 18 minutes was it something stupid like that? And 10 minutes, and he you know Owen Fowl, and we'll talk about Owen Fowl in a bit, but Theodan for me was my man of the match. He just was outstanding. And as everybody said, I mean, we talked about it when we spoke to him last week, when I spoke to him last week, he's just booked himself a place in France, hasn't he, 2023.
SPEAKER_02He's got to be very, very close. Um he he's he's got some versatility there as well, which will benefit him um going forward. And and I think he's I think they'll be looking at him. I'd not be at all surprised to get him to see him uh given a run in one of the warm-up games at least, just uh just to try him out at that level. And and I mean, in fairness, he probably proved yesterday that he is ready for it now. Because, as we say, coming on after 10 minutes in uh in your first final, a hot day, a tight match, really, most of the way through, and playing the way he did. Uh, I think he showed he's ready for international rugby.
SPEAKER_03Um, and the other thing to say about that, and I'll ask this one of Matt because I know Matt likes a bit of controversy and everything, but um, he came on because Jamie George had been taken out by um Tom Curry. I've seen him back on the television. I can almost see why Tom Curry got away with it. But I think if we'd lost that match and Tom Curry had stayed on the field, I would be incandescent. And although I say I think it's the only thing the referee and team did get particularly wrong. And I say that in relation to Robin Islop's yellow. Tom Curry should have got a yellow for that. There was no arm involved in it, there was no rap, and it was shoulder the head, and the mitigation is that that Jamie was was low, which perhaps makes it a yellow. I don't know how you see it, Matt.
SPEAKER_09I wish I could always agree with you, Jazz, but yeah, I think Jamie George starts very, very, very late. Um I'm glad it didn't make a new action. Um Theo Game coming on the years. Um after ten minutes. Um but maybe that would have been the plan anyway, maybe Theo Gamble half time and kids, but I think just the way we were playing around.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Now, another un couple of unsung um heroes in that game, as it were. I think Marco Riccioni, yeah, he had his problems at scrum time, uh, but he began it, he sort of those out, but he did 73 minutes in that heat at the cold face. I mean, that was immense. And the other guy, you know, I mean, Q Tizard played out of his skin. I mean, they all played out of the skin. Marrow does what Marrow does, and you know, we've said this before, he has high standards, which you know is very difficult to reach every week. Nick Azequi was the difference in that pack, though. He was just outstanding. His line out work in particular was brilliant. But every time there was a hit made when Sale looked like they might get away, Nick Azequi got up from the bottom of it, John.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, he was great. There was that that whole engine room was really good. If you you know, you mentioned the fact that there was a change in the front row in the first 10 minutes, and then the 10 minutes after that, there's a change on the wing, and it it seemed to galvanize everyone, actually. I think even when later on in the game, like Callum Hunter Hill came on, and he put two ginormous hits in in the last few minutes, and you think I don't know where they're still going. A lot of them must have been running on empty. This is the first time I've seen them go down with cramp for a while, especially inside 80 minutes. And that, yeah, all of them were I reckon all of them probably slept quite well last night after the amount of effort they put in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. You mentioned Callum Hunter Hill, um, because there were a couple of substitutes by who came on and didn't make a big difference. Callum Hunter Hill was on the field for 19 minutes, and in that time he made 13 tackles. And I counted them back. I think the majority of those were in the last five minutes when you know we'd gone down to 14 men, and backs were a little bit against the wall, and he just threw himself into everything. The other sub who made a big, big impact, Duncan Taylor. He just comes up with magic moments, doesn't he? You know, and we talked about Duncan before, didn't we? Where he say he's had a a shortened career, but every time he gets on the fit gets on the field, he does something amazing.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, I watched the game back as well this morning, um, prior to recording this. And I thought it's you're always going to have a man of the match or a star of the match, whatever, whatever they're calling it these days, um, because TV want that and they want someone to uh to talk to immediately on the side of the pitch. But I really think that anyone in a Saracen shirt yesterday could have won that, and that's not just one to 15, that's one to 23, because it was a complete squad performance, not a team performance, a complete squad performance. Everyone stepped up, no one had a bad game. I don't think anyone even really had an average game. Everyone contributed to the bin, and they should take immense, immense pride from that.
SPEAKER_03Well, absolutely. And I think before we mention the actual TV man of the match, I think it's also important to say that that also goes for sale. I don't think there were any players on the sales side who had bad games either, you know, and it you the we talked all about Master versus Apprentice, Smally versus Alex Anderson and all of this. Sale are a team built in the mould of Saracens. You can see that, and not just on the field, but also off the field with all the cultures that Alex Anderson has taken from Saracens to Sale. And it just proves that the way that Saracens have gone about their business over the last 10 to 15 years is the correct way of doing it. And uh, you know, people have got to look at that template and say, you know, rugby's on its backside at the moment in a lot of ways. We could think London Irish are going to go to the wall, Wasps, Worcester, whatever. The way that Saracens do their business is the right way of doing it, and it makes rugby not only viable, but it also makes it exciting. And there was people talking about it, you know, disenfranchised rugby fans and everything. If they can't have watched that game yesterday and seen the two best teams play at an intensity and a level and not enjoy it, well, rugby's not for them.
SPEAKER_12John that's true, yeah. I mean, it it the thing is, there'll always be this this kind of the caveat to this season will always be the fact that we've had two clubs looks like potentially three going out of business, which is just so sad. But when you see like you said, mate, the way the game the way the game was played and the the way that the Saracen's fingerprints are all over this league. It's it's good to see, but last year it obviously came back to haunt us with Bulfwick doing one over McCall. I'm just grateful it didn't happen again. But yeah, hopefully there'll be some good news coming out of London Irish soon, and we can just enjoy the summer and look forward to the fixtures coming out on July the 18th, and we can do it all over again.
SPEAKER_03Well, absolutely. Well, now I mean what we do need to do is talk about the TV man of the match. And Owen Farrell is a god amongst rugby players, quite simply. You know, you'll see people out there still turning around and saying this, that, and the other, and it's all bullshit about Owen. I apologise, you're gonna have to have to press the explicit button here. But anybody now telling you that Owen Farrell is anything but the best 10 in England, Northern Hemisphere, I would say, in the world, is talking absolute rubbish and is stupid. It quite soon is he ran that game yesterday. Like, you know, I can't believe how good he was, what he did. The 50-22s, the pass to Max Malin's for Max's try was just sublime, and he's looking at it as he's being mulled into the ground and places that pass. The couple of runs he did where it was on, you know, George Ford didn't have a bad game, but he was made to look a bit anonymous uh by the fact that Owen was just out of this world, wasn't he, Matt?
SPEAKER_09He was, yeah. Um, and I think actually I did quite a good benefit of my season. I spent the whole of this season at Stone Edge sitting behind a set of posters and watching Owen Farrell's take the ball from a standing star and not actually moving. Hold on to the end. And I've not been able to notice it. It doesn't make a lot of uh leading, it doesn't carry the ball into the country other players out. So yeah, that style of play this weekend, I think, really um changed the dynamic of our attack, certainly um in the final. And I think that's what's helped this whole season as well. So yeah, I mean Farrell's taking the game to the next level again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely, Matt. You're 100% right there. And uh yeah, I mean, Barry, what he does do, isn't it? He might not make the meters, as Matt said there. But the players that will make meters off of him, and I mean, Max Malin's is gonna miss having that opportunity next season at Bristol, I think. Um, and whoever comes in and plays outside him is gonna you know, Owen's doing. But I think the most important thing about what Owen was doing, and it was epitomized. And I think David Flatman picked it up on the ITV commentary. The behind uh reverse pass he put into um off the Alex Good pass, I think it was into um Elliot Daly, wasn't it, later on? And Flats just turned around and said he was grinning as he was doing that. And for a man who's known for but being a bit dower, can make you and me on our in our rant periods, Barry, look a little bit, you know, like like not Standard and Waldorf, more Fuzzy Bear and Kermit. Uh I mean the fact that he's he enjoyed he's enjoying his rugby, and that's that that joy de viva that he's bringing to the to the team and the club while still being determined, while still, you know, he's just a test match, rugby playing machine animal that elicits so much enjoyment. And I think the the the prime example again, flats picks it up on commentary when Robin Hislock went off. You could see actually Faz relished that. You know, a lot of players would have turned around and gone, oh, oh, you know, and whinged about it or be complaining about it. He's asked the question of Luke Pierce. Luke Pierce has turned around and given him his reasons and everything. He's gone, well, fair enough. I don't agree with you potentially, but uh let's go back. And he just wound the team up and said, We will relish this, we're gonna enjoy this moment, and it's good, you know, and we'll we'll win and we'll do it as hard as we possibly can, Barry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think we picked up on this a couple of weeks ago. Um, Owen's playing with a smile on his face, as we say, and I wonder if he's just said if he's listened to all the criticism and all the absolute drivel that's been spouted over social media and everywhere else this year about who's England's best 10. And he thought, do you know what? I don't care what anyone else thinks anymore. I'm gonna go out there and enjoy my game and I'm gonna play my game because you know he'll he'll know that his time is is is slowly hopefully winding down, um, but he's not not getting any younger as none of us are. Um, and he's just playing the game and enjoying it and uh and going out there. And it I mean he's been superb this season, absolutely superb. He's seen off uh Marcus Smith at number 10 for me, and yesterday you probably saw off George Ford at number 10 for me. And uh if he's not starting at number 10 for England, then I don't know what's wrong with the world, I really don't.
SPEAKER_03No, uh absolutely, I mean, and it's interesting. If you give him a scrum half inside him, who is going to supply quick ball in the same way as Ivan Van Zill does off of a off of a strong forward pack, then you know, let's be honest about it. I'll say this now if we could do that, and I think Gus Waught yesterday for sales sharks really showed his you know cards in that way, Rafi Kirk's, um, you know, the the lad at Bristol, these quick service uh scrum arts, give and um Owen Fowl that inside him behind a strong pack, and England's suddenly become I'm not saying favourites, but they they certainly becoming more uh better for for the world cup, don't you think, John?
SPEAKER_12Well, yeah, anyone but Ben Young's at nine, really. I think in that that box would be ticked. If if you're talking about pairings for the World Cup, I'll say Alex Mitchell's probably the best nine English nine in England, but I think Farrell's got this ability to make anyone around him look good. That's another thing that people don't pick up on. He he raises the level naturally because of his character and the way he is, but he also he does, he just makes people around him better because of the standards that he demands and the quality that he's got. And it's difficult not to look good when you've got when you've got him at the 10 next year. He's just he's world class, he always has been. We've known this for ages, and hopefully, well, that may be a little bit too late now. Hopefully, the the rest of the world are opening their eyes and seeing it as well, finally.
SPEAKER_03Right, absolutely. Look, I think I mean we could go on and talk more and more about this final, but then I think we would be um moving over into the realms of gloating and uh whatever. Let's let's keep a little bit of humility about it. Um, I suppose the the question that we will answer at the start of season four, and we'll leave it till season four, is can Saracens get better and can And the rest of the league catch up with them. So that's something for us to think about over the summer when we're doing our uh our um our holiday assignments, guys. But other than that, I say, look, we're champions. The trophies back where it belongs in the Stone X trophy room. Long may it continue. And from us on the Festcast to all the Saracens family and the uh the Saracens team. Well done, boys. Congratulations. We're proud of you. And uh, you know, you made an awful lot of people very, very happy today. Just also mentioned Jackson Ray, what a great send-off for a legend there as well. Almost as if Robin Islock getting a yellow card was pre-ordained, almost, wasn't it? But there we go. Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time. Uh, we'll finish here. We'll be back to part two where I'm chatting with Joe and the retiring Kat Evans.
unknownCheers.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, everyone.
SPEAKER_11This is the fleet.
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SPEAKER_00I'm Sidney Greekson, and I'm a loose head ambassador.
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SPEAKER_04Hi, Alex Osterberry here, director of rugby for Saracens Women. You're listening to the Slavicens Fez Cast.
SPEAKER_03This is the Fezcast. Well, welcome to part two of the Fez Cast. After our cheesy grin part one with a few um sore heads and um and uh drunk, slightly perhaps drunk on euphoria. We're a bit more down to earth now, but we're joined by a club, well, club legend, I think. I mean we talked about a lot of club legends, but Kat Evans has joined us um after announcing some big news this week. Joining me and Joe to have a chat. Good evening, cat, and welcome to the first cast. Evening, thank you very much. Yeah, I mean it's uh it's an old thing to say, men, uh, you know, being a man and boy, well, woman and girl. Uh Saracen's have been a big part of your life, and you've made the big decision that now's the time to step down. Was it a difficult decision, Cat? Or is it just yeah, you know it's time now and get out at the top, as it were?
SPEAKER_06Um, yeah, I mean, it's always a difficult decision, I think. Um, you know, I love rugby and I'd like to play it, you know, carry on playing forever. But there comes a time where I think you have to go, yeah, it's probably the right time now to hang up my boots. Um, I think uh, you know, the game's getting more professional, so it's harder to commit so much time to the game. Um, and you know, I'm I'm getting older, so my body's like, come on, maybe do something else now.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, I I mean, uh, and Joe will tell you this. I mean, I can I can um uh be so the the benefits of running marathons in your 50s, so I mean that's something to do. I mean, I go I took that up with my late 40s, so I mean, but yeah, I mean the hard knocks, you're not gonna miss those, are you? The getting up and thinking of the bruises in the morning.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think that's it. It's the being hit by a bus feeding. That's the um that's the one you you're gonna miss. You're not gonna miss. Um, I think when the game's on a Saturday, you kind of don't mind having a Sunday that's a bit lazy, but then when the game's on a Sunday and you've got to go to work on the Monday, it's kind of like, oh God, can't move.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, absolutely. A big bruising game yesterday for Saracen's women as well. Joe, you were there. What were your thoughts?
SPEAKER_07I didn't make it to the game, but I did watch it on the live stream. Um, but it was um it was a pretty bruising game, I think, um, overall. Competitive, backwards and forwards, forwards and back, um, as we knew that it probably would be um against uh a strong Bristol team that were obviously trying to secure their fourth place um and some had some their playoff place. So um yeah, it was a really, really good game to watch. Um I think there's some really good performances. Grace Moore for me, definitely player of the match. He played outstanding, but there was some good players play across the pitch there, and um also a little bit of work to do, maybe, for the team moving on to uh the last game of the regular season and then into the uh postseason.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, how how did you feel it went yesterday, Kat, um looking at it and you know, uh a day afterwards, and you know what what was the feeling around the club?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean obviously we were happy to get the win. Um I think it was a lot closer than we probably had hoped it would be. Like we knew it would be a tough game, but I think uh, you know, we'd rather it be a little bit more one-sided. Um, I think um, yeah, it was as Joe said, it was sort of very back and forth. Um Sarre's score, Bristol score, Sarre's score, Bristol score. You know, it was it was it was close, it was a little bit nail-biting. I think even when I when I was coming onto the pitch, I was like, oh god, if we could just score another try before I come on, I'd be quite I'd I'd be happy. And uh and then Bristol scored. And I was like, ah, that wasn't the try I was hoping for. Um, but yeah, it was good and and and like Joe said, like there were some really good performances, and I agree Grace had a great game. Um but yeah, there's there's still things to work on. I think it was a little bit scrappy in in some areas um that we probably just need to tidy, tidy up a little bit.
SPEAKER_03I suppose the the the point here is that in previous years, Saracens, and you know, with a with one or maybe two clubs have been there. Now you're looking all the way down the league and you're seeing competitiveness pretty much throughout the league. And I mean you're going away to Loughborough on the weekends, you know, and that's gonna be a tough match. Is it a case that Saracens have been at a level where the improvements they can make, without saying that there's no improvements to be made, but the improvements that could be made are so tiny. Whereas other teams have been making improvements and it's been a huge improvement and closing the gap.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, sorry.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think so. Um, I mean, as you said, there's always sort of been just a couple of teams at the top uh that sort of fight it out, and then the rest haven't really been haven't really been in in in the sort of running, uh, not really competitive games. You might get the one odd one or two where it was like sort of a shock, like, oh, oh, these have turned up this week. Um, but year on year, for the sort of last four or five years, every well, maybe not that quite that long, but every team is getting better and better and better, and they're now closing the gap between us. So all the games are competitive, and you know, you there are no easy games, it's it's a challenge. Even I think Loughra is sitting third from bottom at the minute, but even playing against Loughborough will still be a challenge. We can't just not turn up, like it won't be a walk in the park. Um, and I think you're right in saying like there are minimal things that Saris can do to sort of stop them catching, you know, there's the to stay ahead. Um, but again, you know, maybe that will come with more full-time sort of contracts there where they're where players are training um full-time, and that may make that gap a little bit bigger. But it is good that the the league is more competitive now, so it's not necessarily a bad thing, it just means Saris have got to work a bit harder.
SPEAKER_03Well, I was gonna say um to Joe as a spectator, and he've watched more games than I have this year of the women um playing, but it does seem to me that because there's been a closing of the gap, there's also a level that perhaps an aura of Saracens' invincibility has perhaps worn off a little bit. Not because Saracens aren't the team still to beat, which obviously they are, but other teams have have are and Bristol yesterday with a prime example. I felt they they felt happy that to start throwing that ball around, and they play some scintillating stuff, particularly in the back. So there's a couple of tries where you know, I don't think you could I don't know, owing foul marshalling your defence or whatever, and it would have you they would have gone through it because and uh and having that almost that belief that yes, we can get close to Saracens is making games harder. I don't know if you agree, Joe.
SPEAKER_07I think it's nice that that Saris are uh up at the top, and that you know, people want to beat Saris. I think it's a nice place for the Saracens teams to be, and you know, it's alright, it's nice for the supporters to to go anywhere and people to be worried that Saracens are either visiting the team or they're coming to the Stone X, which we know is a bit of a fortress um for the girls. Anyway, so um, you know, it it I think it's uh it's good that the the games are coming becoming more competitive. Um I think you you're seeing that you saw it yesterday. I mean, Sale um on Saturday morning um had a great performance against Gloucester Hartbury. Um, you know, and they're all just just performing sort of really, really consistently now. And I think as as that happens and those contracts come in um at both at club and international level, we'll find that the standard of the game um across the women's game just just completely elevates. You know, you've got a couple of new teams coming into the Premier 15s next season. Um, so that'll be interesting to see where they are. We know that there's been some player movements um around um for E Ling and Leicester Tigers. So um yeah, I think I think the forthcoming seasons are um uh really gonna be um interesting to watch. And I'm sure Kat, despite retiring from the game, will still be watching with uh avid interest and still supporting the the black and red.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, always, you know. It's my club, it's the only club I've ever played for, so it's kind of or only senior club. Um it's kind of uh yeah, a big deal, so it will be.
SPEAKER_03I suppose uh I don't know, I suppose, you know, I mean, without wishing to to push the point or anything, the fact that you know this is all coming at the end of your career. And I mean, there must be mixed emotions about it, thinking, why can't I be 10 years younger and having all the benefits of professional contracts and greater exposure, more, you know, more people watching 50,000 odd people going to international games at Twickenham, all of this. I mean, there has to be mixed emotions about that, Shorty Cat.
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, like I never thought to be actually when I was a lot younger, I did think I thought, oh, well, I will be in the time frame where it goes professional. And then it kind of never went professional. I thought, oh no, I'm I'm not gonna be in this, this isn't going professional anytime soon. Um, and then obviously it started to. Um, so yeah, definitely like it would be great to be 10 years younger and still able to, you know, live up to playing full-time and training full-time. Um, but you know, the part it's got to be paved, the pathway's got to be paved for the next generation. So those coming through, like it's happened in football where you've had your sort of full-timers and your part-timers, and you have that sort of mixed team where some people are full-time, some people aren't. Um, and and it and it just has to be done. That's just the way it has to go. So eventually um it will be full-time.
SPEAKER_03So, Kat, let's go back over your career. And I mean, 200 odd appearances for Saracens, as I said, you know, since you were, you know, really um to now. You've been at Saracens your entire career. What has been the highlights for you of that time? You know, is it is it the trophies or is it just the the the camaraderie between yourself and the rest of the girls that you play rugby with and have done over the years?
SPEAKER_06Uh I mean, it's a difficult one. There's been so many. Um, I think winning the first when it was the Tyrrell's Premier 15s, winning the first uh one of those, I think that was quite memorable because that was the first time they'd actually kind of made a big deal about it. Um, so that was good. Um, but also like just the way it's all progressed. So, you know, we used to train at Bramley Road and basically in a in a park. And if it had if there had been bad weather and the pitches were muddy, we we weren't allowed on the pitches, and we had to train in between the pitches so that the men could have the pitches, and we were out on the backfield, and you know, all of these things that now we've got, you know, we we would have two coaches, um, and a physio who's there maybe once a week, whereas now we've got however many coaches, we've got two S and C's, we've got so many physios, um, we've got the facility, we've got the gym, we're training in the same place as the men at OAs, and then playing at Stone X. So, like just seeing how far it's actually come. You know, we used to have to pay subs to play, buy our kit, whereas now we don't have any of that. So, and we actually get paid to play. So, um I think seeing all that progress is is really, really, really, you know, a big deal and something that I would treasure. Um, and also, yeah, like the friends. So, you know, I've got some of my best friends, uh players that I've played with previously, uh, who've retired earlier. Um and you know, the girls that I play with now, there'll be still loads of those girls who I'm still friends with. So just um yeah, all the years and making friends through playing rugby, really.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I mean, the interesting one is I know that when I gave up playing, albeit at a far lower level than where you're at, Kat. But it was always one of those things that the worst thing to be is to be the person at the end of the bar with a point saying, Well, it was so much better in my day, or we did it this way, or we did it that way. Are you? I mean, are you one of those people or are you gonna remain around a club? Are you gonna be on tap for young kids coming through, you know, as a mentor or somebody who can offer up their experiences to help the next generation of cat Evans' come through?
SPEAKER_06Um, I don't really know, to be honest. Uh, I do a little bit of coaching. I've got a couple of uh boys that I coach, and uh I uh another girl that I coach, and actually she was there yesterday, she comes to a lot of the games and she's like really driven, wants to play for Saracens and wants to play for England. Um, so I kind of do a little bit of one-to-one coaching, but uh yeah, not sure. People keep saying that to me. Oh, are you gonna go into coaching? And I'm a bit like, probably not, I don't know. But yeah, I mean, if if if people approach me, I think I you know I have time for them if they if they want to sort of push themselves or want some coaching sessions or want to develop this or that or need advice or whatever, then yeah, I you know I would be around for that.
SPEAKER_03So I suppose that's the next question is that you you know, the end of this season, the boots get hung up. You presumably you know you have an affinity and a love for the club. So I'm I'm sure you're not going to be a stranger down there. But you know, a young player comes up to you and says, Cat, what's the best bit of advice you can give? And I suppose the question is, what was the best bit of advice you got when you were that youngster?
SPEAKER_06Oh gosh, I mean, um best bit of advice is just don't give up. I think keep working on your skills, keep working, keep working. Uh, don't take anything for sort of granted because there will always be someone who comes and works harder than you. Uh, some skill, some I think some players naturally are talented, but if you have another player who works and works and works, they can be equally as good. So I just think, you know, like it's not easy, and you do have to work for it. So that means spending extra hours in the gym, like you're not just going through the motions and actually trying to push yourself to get stronger and fitter and faster, and and the same on the rugby pitch, like making sure that your tackle technique is good, you're passing, you know, and you know the game. Um, something actually I didn't do when I was younger, but I've seen the benefits of other players who did is watch a lot of rugby. So, like just watching it and learning and seeing what other players do and stuff like that. And I think that's really, really vital for anyone who wants to go on to sort of play a high-level rugby.
SPEAKER_03Really well, yeah, absolutely 100%. Joe, have you got anything you'd like to ask Kat at this moment in time?
SPEAKER_07So, what's what's next then? I know you probably haven't got a complete plan, but what's next for Cat Evans post-rugby? Um to your sports rehab and all that kind of stuff, I know.
SPEAKER_06Post rugby, obviously, I've got my my career, my jobs. Um, but actually, myself and Flito are probably gonna maybe look at doing a bit of CrossFit together. Um, and I want to do go into doing some triathlons as well. So I won't be stopping all physical activity or all competitive um sports. I'll just go into some different ones.
SPEAKER_07Well, I would like to. Whilst we're talking about it then, um, because obviously you weren't the only person that announced their retirement this weekend. Um give us a word on Fleeto then, um, from your point of view, having played with her.
SPEAKER_06Oh, she's yeah, she's a great girl. She's one of those, like I said, works hard. You know, she will always put in the extras. Um, she's always working hard, whether it's in the gym or doing extra stuff just to better herself. Um, I think she's a phenomenal player, and actually, I don't I don't quite think she's sort of got the recognition she needed. Not not from her retirement, but I mean over the last few years, um, she's sort of fallen out of that England team a little bit. And you know, I I think she's a great player, and I I don't think she deserves to have fallen out of that. Um I think maybe sometimes coaches don't like the way people play, or maybe they want someone a little bit bigger, but she, you know, she's a machine, she is so fit, she's so fast, she will work as hard as you want, and if you tell her what you want, she'll do it. And I think they're they are qualities that every team needs. Um, so yeah, I mean, I understand her decision, and I think she's sort of gone, yeah, it's time now. Um, but yeah, it was it was really, really great. He's actually a really great person to retire with at the same time. Um, but she was a great, great player to have played alongside.
SPEAKER_03Well, indeed, and I mean it's uh with the men uh you know, Jackson Ray making his last appearance on the weekends. Uh fantastic for him getting a standing ovation as he was subbed off with a yellow card at Twickenham. I mean, that's free, huge, not only I think, um, just on the on the field, playing field, but talismanic people. If you if you don't mind me saying that about you, you know, you you are a symbol of the club. You've not part of the furniture almost, you've been there for that period of time. Fleeto as well, Draco as well. I mean, we're gonna miss you. I mean, that's the other thing. I mean, we've seen today, you know, Colin Garrett and Barbara Buxton being named as uh women's supporters of the year, and congratulations to them for that. You know, the supporters that will really miss seeing people like you and Fleeto on the pitch on the on on every weekend. It will be a big part of their life taken away almost.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, um, I'm sure we'll be around. So um, I'm sure we'll, you know, people won't, we're not going to disappear and and nobody ever hear from us again. So I'm sure we'll be around still.
SPEAKER_03Well, absolutely. Well, from me and Joe and all of us on the Fez cast, uh say thank you for joining us, Kat. Um, congratulations on a fantastic career and all the best for the future, whatever retirement may bring you. And uh, I can highlight I highly recommend running, it's it's great fun. I never thought I'd say that 10 years ago. So, I mean, that's that's something. So if you fancy running the marathon with me or anything, you're more than welcome to do that. I mean, we'll be at we'll be at the back. I will anyway, but uh uh but yeah, no, Kat, thank you ever so much for joining us. And as I say, anytime you want to come on the first cast in the future, you're more than welcome to come on as a as a supporter as opposed to a player in the future. It's it's fantastic as well. So, but thank you ever so much for your time. And as I say, all the best and good luck. Uh, and before we sign off, just trying to say, Joe, that we'll be back next week, won't we? We've got more women's games to review. Obviously, the end of season game next, so next Wednesday, we'll be back with that. And also our players of the year polls and uh Matt's cock up over the um the golden moment as well, the Champagne Bowman. Imagine having that and then CFO dad put a 50-22 in after you put the vote out there. Never mind. Anyway, so that's all next week. So thank you everybody for listening into the Fezcast, and uh, we'll speak to you again next week.
SPEAKER_11This is the Fezcast.